Lizzie's Ships

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:11 am

TranquilRage wrote:blah blah blah

Flaming ended 8 posts ago.

Boba Fettuccini · Post by **Boba Fettuccini** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:30 am

i'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but I agree with Anarki. Anything capable of destroying a canon shiip with no trouble at all is too powerful. it may be cool, but the game isn't designed for it.

Post by **Anna** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:47 am

Boba Fetuccini wrote:i'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but I agree with Anarki. Anything capable of destroying a canon shiip with no trouble at all is too powerful. it may be cool, but the game isn't designed for it.

Okay, that statement is just begging to be shot down.

"Too powerful" implies that there is an objective base of what is "too strong". There isn't. A ship can be fairly labelled "over-powered", because some ships are hulking monstrosities compared to the canon ones. It's a reasonable statement. But "too powerful" implies that "YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT, IT'S BAD!". It states that there is some arbitrary upper-limit to ship power that shouldn't be crossed. Which is, of course, complete garbage.

Stating that the game wasn't designed for it is, once again, bullshit. I'm pretty sure th15 had a good idea of the fact that allowing custom ships would mean that people would make large, hulking monstrosities that can blow apart every canon ship in the game twice over, simultaneously, with nary a scratch on it. Hell, look how much space you're given in the ship maker. That alone completely disproves that last part. The game WAS designed, to allow you to make ships that are insanely large and powerful.

So while calling a ship "over-powered" can be a valid assessment, "too powerful" is not, unless you're saying "too powerful to be included in the vanilla game". Which could be said be saying it's overpowered. Unless you're going to place arbitrary restrictions on how powerful people can make their ships, and label anything above it as "bad".

Boba Fettuccini · Post by **Boba Fettuccini** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:51 am

Anna wrote:
Boba Fetuccini wrote:i'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but I agree with Anarki. Anything capable of destroying a canon shiip with no trouble at all is too powerful. it may be cool, but the game isn't designed for it.

"Too powerful" implies that there is an objective base of what is "too strong". There isn't. A ship can be fairly labelled "over-powered", because some ships are hulking monstrosities compared to the canon ones. It's a reasonable statement. But "too powerful" implies that "YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT, IT'S BAD!". It states that there is some arbitrary upper-limit to ship power that shouldn't be crossed. Which is, of course, complete garbage.

So if the US Navy were to start construction of a 31 mile long ship capable of launching 300 nuclear missiles at one time, and surrounded by a massive impenetrable force field, you DON'T THINK that would be a "YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT, IT'S BAD!" moment?? If so, you are messed up.

Post by **Anna** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:59 am

Boba Fetuccini wrote:So if the US Navy were to start construction of a 31 mile long ship capable of launching 300 nuclear missiles at one time, and surrounded by a massive impenetrable force field, you DON'T THINK that would be a "YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT, IT'S BAD!" moment?? If so, you are messed up.

What the hell are you talking about!? Talk about a complete and utter fucking red herring. Of course in real life there are limits. That's because in real life, it actually affects shit other than just a god damn game.

And actually, if the US Navy were capable of constructing that, they would, because it gives them even more military superiority than they already have. And it would be a smart fucking thing for them to do. But none of that changes the fact that your statement makes no fucking sense in this context.

Almost every single ship I've made can blast the canon ships to scrap in seconds, and take little to no damage. Does that make them overpowered? Yes. I've never said they aren't. Does that make them "too powerful"? Hell fucking no. I can make my ships as powerful as I want, and not you or anyone else can tell me otherwise.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:15 am

As one of the biggest offenders of overpowered starship making, I'm taking Seraph's side, here. The game allows you to create massively ridiculously uberwankish Munchiest-of-Munchkin-Munch Giganto-Penis-Compensator ships that slice through a Nagaya3 on contact or a Levi in nine frames, and if that's your prerogative, so be it. Th15 didn't let us do this for us to flame each other for doing it!

If you don't like the LOL UBERKILLATRON STARSHIPS O DEATH!!1, don't DL them.

Post by **Arcalane** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:34 am

Danny couldn't have put it better, IMO. If people want to build ridiculous ships (in comparison to stock ones), let them. All evidence points to the fact th15 expected this to happen - from the roughly 800x800 build area and modifyable weaponry to the fact the shipmaker exists and that there are no limits imposed within it.

If you don't like the ships, don't download them. It's that simple.

I admit, compared to stock ships, mine are, shall we say... unbalanced. I am entirely aware of this. They were never meant to be balanced compared to stock. The Executor has quite the history, in fact, as to why it is not balanced compared to stock. They are, however, meant to be balanced in that a similarly sized and statted ship with similar weaponry has a feasible chance of defeating them in head to head combat. The Myrmidon was inspired by some of the largest ships around, for example. Whether or not it's a fair match remains to be seen.

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:38 am

It's not the size of the ship which makes it unbalanced - heck, a ship 10 times bigger then a Hestia should pwn it, bad.

It's people making 99999 damage custom railguns and stuff like that.

Post by **Anna** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:42 am

I can safely say I've never seen a 99999 damage custom railgun. Especially since such a thing would be nigh on useless, since it would still only do 15 damage to each section it passes through.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:01 pm

Anna wrote:I can safely say I've never seen a 99999 damage custom railgun. Especially since such a thing would be nigh on useless, since it would still only do 15 damage to each section it passes through.

Mine only go up to 120.

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:05 pm

lol

/facepalm

But you know what I mean - people have weapons which are obscenely powerful, or have a ship made out of weapons, virtually.

And that is what makes things less fun - you can't pit a ship which is more balanced, vs a whole bunch of custom superbeamers.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:07 pm

Anarki wrote:lol

/facepalm

But you know what I mean - people have weapons which are obscenely powerful, or have a ship made out of weapons, virtually.

And that is what makes things less fun - you can't pit a ship which is more balanced, vs a whole bunch of custom superbeamers.

My solution is get several more people to make uberships, then have them tiered (maybe the game can give you something like a 'power index number' to compare ships by?)

Post by **Aralonia** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:09 pm

pls 2 be droping semantik-basd flaemwar kthxbai

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:14 pm

lts r talk liek diz kkthxbai

In Shipmaker 3.0, apparently there will be a dump-to-text option, or something similar, which allows you to display a ship statistics in text.

Kacen · Post by **Kacen** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:24 pm

Balanced and imbalance is relative.

Me and Lizzie fight with powerful ships, therefore we build powerful ships that are balanced against each other, and would tear through many of the default ships.

So, honestly, I don't think it matters. And when an argument comes down to a semantics battle, thats when you know theres no point left.