R.I.P. Kaelis (And Anna)

Squishy · Post by **Squishy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:27 pm

Now you can spend more time making ships.

Swamp Fox · Post by **Swamp Fox** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:35 pm

Honestly, I'm sorry to see this happen. I found Anna' moderating style quite satisfactory, and more to the point, mostly effective.
What really bugs me though, isn't that he had his powers revoked, it's that it was fueled by such an insignificant little thing. Of all his anger-soaked, curse-riddled, thermite-fueled rageposts in the past, this happens when he starts showing an interest again and actually behaves himself?

Deltaflyer · Post by **Deltaflyer** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:13 am

Although I have been on the recieving end of one of Anna's outbursts, I must agree with Swamp fox there. He never did like me, and vice versa, but he kept the idiots away from wyrdsym forums. (Or at least the majority of them). Sorry this has happened.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:11 am

I've been on the Wrong End™ of quite a lot of Seraph's gunfire, too, but this is truly ham-fisted and very obviously excessive a response to... whatever it is Seraph did. Besides, we need someone who wields the Big Stick, then leaves the evidence out for God and everyone to see instead of all this cloak-and-dagger ninja-delete censorship bullshit like Arcalane likes to do. How do you expect everyone to learn what doesn't fly if you keep whitewashing people's mistakes right off the forum?

Isn't thaat what HoS is for?

Post by **Aralonia** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:55 am

I disagree with this decision.

Normandy · Post by **Normandy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:27 am

He can still swing his large postcount and his large library of rather pretty ships around.

[rant]
'Cloak-and-dagger shit' should be the way it is. We do not publicly flog our criminals, and as in th15's rules, we do not beat idiots with sticks. It seldom makes them smarter. Let's face it people, this is the internet, nay, the world. Chasing away idiots is as futile as damming the oceans. You might succeed, but you're not going to get much out of your efforts. Unless you're Dutch or something, but that's another story entirely.

Seriously, have you people ever read a post about Wyrdysm? Everyone agrees that BSF is great, but then some guy criticizes the community and guess what? Everyone agrees. These people are posters just as respectable as any person on these forums, yet they either never join due to the bad rap we have, or find it difficult to enter the community due to our 'standards', or feel that they do not want to associate with such a 'upheld and worthy' community. I can't tell you how many times I myself have seen a post and thought "Was that necessary?". If Anna was not so respected, I'm sure he'd at least have a few tempbans under his belt for disorderly conduct, a refusal to keep the peace, and a stunning ability to fall for trolls. So what if the insults are not ad homiems? There's this thing called etiquette, a good portion of our civilization is founded on it.

Let's not forget th15. He might want to make a living off this stuff. Who looks worse for the forums? Some 17-post nobody who might have committed the unforgivable atrocity of making a few unrelated mistakes in a row, or the 2000+post moderator who proceeds to express, in completely family unfriendly language, his seething rage over the former? Remember, this is not a social forum, where people just simply come to 'hang out'. This is an official game forum, and an indispensable one, given the community-driven nature of the game. Who are you to choose who should be here and who should not?

I'm sure a good bunch of you have said it yourself. What has been said cannot be unsaid. Nothing Anna can do will really repair his reputation, unless you were to purge these forums with fire. He's simply a bad choice for moderator, and I'm happy I can say this on level terms with him.

tl;dr version:
It's for the greater good.
[/rant]

Chiiro · Post by **Chiiro** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:41 am

Normandy wrote:'Cloak-and-dagger shit' should be the way it is.

I'm going to disagree with you a little here. On most successful and/or professional communities I've ever spent time on there's usually that one moderator who acts the enforcer.
When shit hits the fan, it's good to have a mod who just doesn't take shit from anybody to set it straight.
IMO Anna' has been filling that role pretty well on Wyrdysm, and he's by no means personally responsible for the "bad rep" that we might have as a community.
Problem is lately, he's just fed up with things. I can see where he's coming from because a lot of the time I just look at this place and I shake my head in pained astonishment. Unfortunately this also drains his patience, so he's quick to reprimand harshly.

tl;dr Anna gets the job done, there's just a lot of work to do and his patience is running thin.

Corporal Jomn · Post by **Corporal Jomn** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:44 am

Hey, I just wanna say something, if you look at the moderators usergroup, you can see that Siber, and some others have also been striped of moderator privalges. Only Arc, Kaelis, and Ara remain.

Normandy · Post by **Normandy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:14 am

The others have been gone for quite a while. Although I'm kind of scared that Siber is still lurking in the shadows...

I ATEN'T DEAD

Post by **Kaelis** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:31 am

Normandy, while your post is excellent and i nearly completely agree, theres one aspect of this that you're missing - the way this was handled.

Seraph was stripped of modding privileges with little explanation and no conversation at all. While i agree that the way Seraph moderated was undesired, Sean didnt even talk to him, didnt try to resolve the issue, just demoted him like that.

The part that i don't agree with is that Seraph is decisively a bad moderator - yes, his moderation and in general the way he behaves towards 'offenders' is awful, but who knows. If Arc and/or Sean didnt decide to put up with this and presented him with ultimatum, maybe he would be civil. Of course well never know that, since now he considers it as sucking up to Sean in order to save the mod tag.

Post by **th15** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:57 am

First of all, the problem basically lies with me. I haven't had the time to properly moderate my own forums and that's just my own fault. That's become unacceptable.

Anna is still perfectly welcome to participate. He can even still yell at people all he wants. He's usually justified. Generally he's just too nasty about it and it's time I put a stop to that.

There are guidelines and rules for the forum. They're designed to encourage people to participate and create. Just because they aren't as good doesn't preclude them from the opportunity to create or justify abuse from a moderator.

I have argued with Anna before and called him an asshole a few times. I really don't expect him to change in that respect. But that's fine as long as he doesn't inflict it on anyone.

And that's what participation in the forums comes down to. Everyone's entitled to do whatever the hell they like. The only thing I won't let you do is try to stop anyone else from doing what they want to do.

Siber · Post by **Siber** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:16 am

Normandy wrote:The others have been gone for quite a while. Although I'm kind of scared that Siber is still lurking in the shadows...

Arca got bored and stripped my privileges a while ago. I lurk occasionally, but there's nothing I can do to you besides make funny faces at you.

Post by **Aralonia** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:21 am

My personal belief: Anna is an effective moderator because of his swift justice when it's required. Granted, he is also a swift and scathingly vicious commenter, but that's somewhat required in a day an age where things escalate to "NO I'M RIGHT SHUT UP". He takes the final blow in the first shot.

I do not support the decision to nuke Anna. He's not the best guy for a moderation job - none of us are, but the point of the matter was he was damn good at his job, and I don't think there's anyone better here.

Lizzie · Post by **Lizzie** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:23 am

th15 wrote: And that's what participation in the forums comes down to. Everyone's entitled to do whatever the hell they like. The only thing I won't let you do is try to stop anyone else from doing what they want to do.

So then if someone wants to be a troll, spam, or post hardly appropriate imagery on the forum we should just let them then?

And you have yet to actually speak of the fact you just suddenly removed Anna' privileges without actually talking to him about it, "A few arguments and calling him a asshole" does not justify that.

Since I can do whatever the hell I like, I'll state my opinion then. You're a fucking idiot who doesn't know jack shit about how to run a forum, and this place is better off when you're not sticking your dick in it. The only thing you've really done for this place that was good, was making the damn game and actually bringing on some moderators and another admin, and now you're just gonna take back over again and keep your hands on everything? No thanks.

Post by **th15** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:27 am

@Lizzie: Well, okay. I probably am an idiot, I wouldn't claim otherwise. I've definitely screwed up enough times in my life to prove that particular point.

I don't think I'm so much taking back as actually trying to live up to my responsibilities to maintain the community.