The Practicality of various futuristic weapons.

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Talhydras
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Post by Talhydras »

I dunno how impractical long distance is... my first post pointed out that light second range combat errors lead to missing by literally miles; that is a problem for engineers :D. More seriously though, consider the following situation.


...actually, do that at your discretion. It got a bit out of hand, but I was trying to maintain a level of fun as opposed to getting out my physics penis and having a great big penis waving competition. Sci-fi should be fun. I hope it's still an entertaining read, but it might bore some viewers. The only really relevant point is that chemical fueled missiles for light second range combat is ridiculous; evidence: the moon missions. Think about it, or search the relevant information below.


Let us say I have placed my faith in an unstoppable death ray of supreme range; a large orbital fortress with a relatively high frequency laser. Being more conservative and shamelessly cribbing Luke Campbell's example from the atomic rocket weapons page, at a light minute on a hit it'll take a matter of milliseconds to start vaporizing hull metal. At a light second, its more like microseconds.

An invading fleet from Mars decides it really doesn't like the cut of my jib and launches a two-pronged attack. The sneaky martian bastards have deduced that the huge radiator array on the orbital fortress isn't just for show and is in fact for radiating, and aim a mass driver launching loads of Playboys and tennis balls and banana peels at my radiators, while fueling a squadron of missile boats to come into my neighborhood and rumble.

I am on Earth for the purposes of this example. Chilling, if you will. If I'm lucky the sensors monitoring the martians for such shenanigans note the discharge of the mass drivers, everyone in the solar system notes the missile boats taking off. The martians decide they're done fucking around and accelerate up to about 100 km/sec. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the solar system trappings of this metaphor because relative orbital positions of the involved planets make things complicated but what the hell let's roll with it.

So the martians get up to speed and decide, ah, fuck it they're done burning fuel and using up reaction mass, they'll coast in on the tail of the mass driver payloads. The commander of the orbital fortress (nicknamed "the Death Star" by its geeky crew) orders earth system freighters to start shipping him all the water and other coolants they can get their hands on, and start firing. What the hell, maybe you'll get lucky.

The captains of the martian spaceships note the death star has started firing and are a little panicked, as my lazy math has them about a week out. They dodge dutifully and are duly missed, but after about a day of serious maneuvering the crew is sick of pulling 1.5 gees and the fuel tanks are showing some strain. Eventually one ship gets hit - pure luck - and suffers minor damage. Electronics shielding prevents major damage to ship systems, but there's some minor irritation in the sensors.

So the martians sluggishly duck and weave to conserve reaction mass the whole way there, occasionally getting tickled by a beam. One or two improperly shielded missiles get disabled by the death star, but no biggie. Fast forward to day 6; the humans haven't really gotten lucky again and stopped firing to dissipate heat. Space suited hunams have placed bags of gravel in the way of the metallic (and radar-detectable) mass driver payloads and the martians still haven't gotten into the light second ranges they need to start considering deploying their missiles. These hunams have been making them sweat bullets for most of a week, no way they're launching their birds and turning tail. The Death Star cools it for a day, bleeding off excess heat, and then its time for the final showdown.

The martians reach a light second of range and then the shit hits the motherfucking fan. The death star starts firing, and this time it's not a harmless spotlight, oh no. It's depositing a couple of terawatts per cubic centimeter in iron-like spaceship armor; who knows what the martians would really armor their ships with but whatever it is it hurts. Bad. Even at 100 km/sec, in a microsecond the martian cruisers have only moved ten centimeters, and using target tracking equipment that was cutting edge in the era of the Phalanx CIWS the death star's turret was tracking the ship's movement. The first hit puts a hole straight through the armor, crew quarters, munitions bay, maneuvering propellant tank, and bridge of the lead martian cruiser. Chaos reigns, the ship just loses its shit all at once. There's a gash-shaped breach that came out of nowhere, and the second in command can barely radio to the other vehicles to begin evasive maneuvers and deploy munitions before his console explodes in a shower of cheap visual effects.

Hundreds of kill vehicles are released from each martian cruiser and they start braking like madmen. They don't want to be near this thing for one god damn second longer because it'd take tons and tons of armor to deflect a glancing blow, and a direct hit transfixes a ship.

The martian missiles wake up, give each other electronic bro-poounds, and coast at 100 km/sec towards the Death Star. There's a thousand of them; some armed with live warheads, some armed with bubbly personality to lure away real point defense, some armed with submunitions to engage point defense. But they notice something funny; near the death star there's a lot of small objects.

Now here's an informative aside: it took the upper stage of a saturn V rocket to put three people about a light second away. It took the better part of 3 days each way, and 95% of the course was ballistic (ie eminently shootable). I grant you in this scenario the missiles don't need to boost up to speed, but they do need to make sure they hit the target. And dodging is energy intensive. A laser just has to exert enough force to make a hole through the target. An engine trying to dodge has to physically move the entire target out the way.

Anyway, where were we? The martian swarm of death notices that the Death Star has deployed countermeasures and stopped firing on the martian cruisers. It has also reduced shot power and has begun firing on the incoming missiles. It doesn't need to put a hole through a warship, just scoop a few centimeters of armor off the engine of a martian missile. It won't detonate in a ball of fire, but it will also be unable to safely maneuver. Low power shots are fired, the very dangerous swarm of missiles begins using its fuel to dodge like crazy. And to their credit, the swarm of missiles succesfully dodges; it takes multiple shots for the death star to kill a single missile and the countermeasures are moving to block the new courses of the missiles.

So for 300,000 kilometers, the martian missiles are whittled down by ever more accurate beam fire; the Death Star's firing constantly and these aren't ICBMs. With ICBMs the defender has to decide in a matter of seconds which is a threat and which is a hot aluminum balloon. The DS has 50 minutes and has shot the countercountermeasure missiles, the missiles with lasing rods strapped to them, and who knows how many others. Out of 1000 initial missiles, perhaps 600 remain, and the DS deployed two thousand countermeasures. Countermeasures need fantastically less in the way of fuel, a warhead, guidance, or shielding; their job is to GET IN THE WAY. How the hunams financed the death star and all these decoys is an exercise best left to the reader. In the scramble of seconds as the martian missiles close the range, all but one are interdicted by the valiant little countermeasures.

The last missile had furiously expended propellant maneuvering to avoid its interceptors and coasts into the target on fumes.

The death star swats it 50 kilometers from impact with a last ditch low power beam that vaporizes just enough of the armored missile nose to deflect it from an impact. The missile begins slewing like crazy to reacquire, runs out of gas, sighs to itself, and detonates as it passes a few hundred meters past the station, ensuring a total victory.

Except this missile's arming mechanisms had been cooked entirely by that last laser shot. Leisurely the defenders of Earth flush coolant and pick off the martian cruisers as they try and leave, but cooler heads note how lucky they were not to have been roasted by that last bomb.

Earth briefly considers formally declaring war on Mars, and then realizes that with the large lens on their Death Star they could shoot at Mars's decidedly unmaneuverable orbital industry with impunity and carve "FUCK OFF" into their shipyards.
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Post by Sponge »

Okay; I was good with this scenario until the point where shit got all up in my fan. At that point, I realized that there was a pretty serious technological disconnect between our two takes on this situation. I was also pissed that you put shit in my new fan.

I won't say that mine is practical with current technology, because it isn't, but it is remotely possible. We have big nukes and powerful computers. Putting the two together is fairly trivial. The biggest issues are fuel, maneuverability, armor, and economic viability. The issue of fuel largely eases the severity of the maneuverability problem, and the armor problem falls into place pretty easily after that. The economic side of the issue isn't too big a deal, because none of the technologies involved could be considered totally revolutionary. It's only a matter of time before it's cheap enough to manage.

The deathray, on the other hand, is far, far, far further into our technological future. You have to solve the issue of generating, focusing, and releasing terrajoules of energy, over and over again. You have to solve the issue of getting rid of that waste heat, which is really a massive problem with all that power and the fact that radiators really aren't very effective when there's nowhere for all that heat to go. You have to solve the issue of aiming something accurately to a minuscule fraction of a degree: a feat which would require nearly frictionless materials and some sort of uber-precise turret system that can move a several-ton weapon, which also seems quite far fetched.

This is all compounded by the fact that the issue of a hole in the side of your ship is one that was solved quite some time ago. An effective system of bulkheads means that your expensive, impossibly advanced deathray does very little. You lose a compartment of redshirts and a few guns (there're plenty left), and you're back up on your feet. One of my nukes, on the other hand, and you're down for the count. There's a good chance that you'll get some stray currents building up, and that a good chunk of your electrical systems will be fried. No amount of bulkheads will do you any good, because you can no longer control them, and they're probably melting anyway. 25-50 megaton bombs seem likely. That's a lot of boom. Your scenario of taking out every major system at once is terribly unlikely for a number of reasons. First is that, even though a terrajoule is a lot of power, you have to release that over time if you a) want to be even remotely practical and b) want to have a drilling effect. More time means more time for enemy to move and your shot to deviate from its target which means less penetration. There's also the fact that your enemy will see you at the same time you see them (possibly sooner, because you've got a massive, energy dumping deathray), and if you don't immediately turn so that they can't fire directly down the center of your ship's lateral axis, you're a dumbshit and shouldn't be in charge of a warship. Or anything of significance, for that matter.

So yes, if you're using technology several hundred years more advanced than the Martians, they don't have any chance. You can charge up your laser and cut a swath across the side of their planet effortlessly. The problem with assuming such advanced technology is that, as time passes and technology develops, the probability of anything we suggest actually representing something viable drops off exponentially. When we can power a deathray (read: when we power our ships with small, artificial stars), and solve all of the other issues associated with such a device (coolant would be viable, seeing as we'd then have the space to store it, etc., etc.), who's to say we won't have something that completely outclasses lasers in every conceivable manner? I mean, to our knowledge, there is nothing that makes teleportation physically impossible. I'd rather teleport an antimatter warhead onto my enemy's bridge than waste time making them into a block of swiss cheese. Sticking with technology that is conceivably possible in the somewhat near future allows better guesses to be made. They're still just guesses, but we have more of the information required to make them educated guesses. Speculating on far-future technology, on the other hand, is really just stabbing in the dark, perhaps at someone who breathes too heavily, so as to not make the task seem so impossible.
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Post by unsunghero10 »

I really want to say TL;DR for these, but I did. :shock:

That quip on teleportation, it is possible, but you have to move the exit manually, and you have to have (probably not too wrong) a solar systems worth of energy to get it to any viable size. Not feasible in any war.
That's if your using a wormhole, don't know about the other ways.
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Post by Sponge »

I think you misinterpreted my comment. I was talking about potential future technologies. Future technologies do not necessarily have to rely on current technologies, at least in their present form. We, as a race, know of no law rendering teleportation impossible. I'm fairly certain there aren't any laws that govern the placements of entrances or exits, either, seeing as how that would imply that we know far more about the mechanics behind teleportation than we actually do. It was a "far out" example to demonstrate my point that was, in a nutshell, that we have no idea what kind of stuff we'll come up by the time we're harnessing the power of small stars and building ships the size of moons.
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Post by th15 »

Well, in tracking system's favour, I have to say that you don't actually have to move the whole weapon, you just use lenses and mirrors (which you're going to have anyway) to point the beam in the right direction, sorta how that Star Wars 747's chemical laser works.

On the other hand, lasers on that scale doesn't sound very feasible. Even shipping the fuel for a chemical laser on that scale into orbit is a pretty insane task.

Finally, this model assumes full transfer of energy to the ship's hull. As stated in the model, the martians see that big fat radiator thing and realise that is is indeed for shooting shit up. The missing sentence here is that they go on and mirror their damn hull plating so they don't get zapped.

On top of that, its not very hard to chuck a bunch of chaff infront of the ship as it approaches. Countermeasures work both ways.

Finally, while it might not be feasible for ships, the missiles could easily spin on their axis, making any laser have to track not only the position of the target, but the aspect of the target with high precision in order to hit the same spot.
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Post by Noctis »

I still wonder what kind of potentially awesome things quantum mechanics could give us. The whole spooky connection and quantum entanglement could have some rather interesting applications if we ever figure out how the hell it works.
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Post by Siber »

th15: mirroring a hull against x-ray lasers would be a neat trick. lenses for such a weapon would have to rely on funky glancing-angle-deflection stuff, which I believe we already use for some relevant space telescopes, not curved mirrors or lenses.

And a few kilotons of TNT worth of energy dumped into a line across the hull instead of a spot is still a few kilotons of TNT worth of energy dumped into the hull.

noctis: if I'm not terribly mistaken, lasers themselves are enabled by weird QM effects. As for your previous comments... I think you specifically stated chemically propelled missiles, and I'd be surprised if we didn't already have a very good handle on what those are theoretical capable of.

If the Polywell experiments go as they have been so far, we may have viable productive fusion plants within a decade, which makes the energy requirements of a laser like this a bit less outlandish.
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Post by Noctis »

Siber wrote:
noctis: if I'm not terribly mistaken, lasers themselves are enabled by weird QM effects. As for your previous comments... I think you specifically stated chemically propelled missiles, and I'd be surprised if we didn't already have a very good handle on what those are theoretical capable of.

If the Polywell experiments go as they have been so far, we may have viable productive fusion plants within a decade, which makes the energy requirements of a laser like this a bit less outlandish.
Really? I can't say I see anything in laser theory that enhabits the domain of quantum mechanics. I could be wrong of course, but it all seems like a pretty basic idea of making ions go really fucking fast at something you dislike.

When I imagine using Quantum Mechanics in an aggressive way, I always imagine somehow using something similar to the spooky connection to instantaneously teleport a nuke over1000 light years and into someone's cockpit.
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Post by Latooni »

...Wait, you think Lasers fire ions? Lasers fire nothing but photons, coherent light. They generate the coherent beam by stimulating the atoms in whatever is used as the gain medium to fire in phase, which is in phase due to quantum effects.

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation = LASER.

No ions, nothing but photons. Lasers are nothing but light in a coherent beam, and it gains its potentially destructive capabilities completely due to the fact it's incredibly focused. Even then, you need to pour a whole lot of energy in, which is why lasers are questionable as weaponry.

Attacking using a beam of ions would be closer to a mass driver, and would be a charged particle cannon rather than a laser.

I couldn't be assed to read through the entire topic since I have little doubt it's full of the occasional poster mouthing off about shit they don't care to actually understand, and I'd rather keep my nerd rage levels low for today, so I apologize if anything I said is redundant or already covered in this thread.
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Post by Anna »

The missing sentence here is that they go on and mirror their damn hull plating so they don't get zapped.
It would take a perfect, and I do mean perfect, reflective surface to protect against lasers in any significant way, and those just don't happen. Especially not in space. Even the most minor flaw would make it worthless. And it wouldn't be especially effective against things like x-ray lasers.
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Post by Talhydras »

Sponge: For my living this summer I aimed telescopes at objects four billion light years away. I'm not sure I centered the object totally perfectly, but given a template of the object the computer certainly could. Sure, it was a quasar and slightly bigger than a missile bus, but it was also quite far away.

Tracking technology capable of milliarcsecond resolution and sub-arcsecond aiming is reality, buddy :D And it's only going to get better. I grant you this does NOT solve the lightspeed aiming problem (if its changed course in the time it takes your ray of chocolatey, gooey photonic death to travel, you still miss), but it sure helps the lightsecond range combat.

The phalanx CIWS engages cruise missiles moving very close to modern warships. It doesn't do it well, but it weighs 6600 kg and moves quickly. Turret actuators are not going to be a problem, silly. The laser turret also probably has fewer moving parts vulnerable to high speed rotation than a phalanx :P. Not exactly centuries in the future, eh?

A 10 MW x-ray FEL like the one the death star had in the story vaporizes several cm of iron or graphite or glass (representative samples of ferrous, carbon, and composite starship hulls) in microseconds. You don't need to be worried about a divot-sized hole, you need to be worried about your ship being cut in fucking half. Unless your crew brought some gorilla glue you're not getting up from that one. Long ragged gashes like the one that weapon can inflict are going to mess up surface sensors, electronics, life support (though your crew is all wearing spacesuits because they're not hilarious blowhards who think they know shit) and all sorts of other stuff. You're gonna have cryogenic maneuvering thruster fuel all over the god damn place, major structural failures making dodging at high G's a LOT less viable, and your fan will be quite shitty.

In a nutshell: Being hit on the smallest possible surface area is a good idea. Presenting your ship's midsection to a daethray is a great way to get your command module separated from your thrusters. If you're using nuclear drives, there will be vulnerable connectors, and if you're using chemical rockets, your fuel tanks will have been breached in a bad way.

Assuming 10% efficiency in the deathray, the Death Star needs a 100 MW power supply. The three mile island nuclear plant, if I'm reading these figures right (which I might not be), generated eight times that power. So, you're dead wrong on power supply too. Clusters of orbital solar cells could easily generate that much power, never mind nuclear or fusion plants which could support dozens of similar weapons.

Again, X-ray FELs are a reality; they're under construction in Europe. Improvements to the laser efficiency are a certainty. The Death Star in my story is, therefore, a hybrid of a nuclear power plant, the X-ray FEL, and a phalanx CIWS. Making it... um... sorta modern tech? :P Oh fine not really; there's a pretty long way to go between the european xray FEL and any sort of combat feasible death ray; but it's not hundreds and hundreds of years. The problems of bad efficiency, finicky components, and scaling are problems that plagued early chemical lasers and by and large those have been successfully addressed in several decades of materials science.

Lots of coolant and a bigass radiator are good ideas; I considered building the death star on the moon and using the regolith as an essentially infinite heat sink. you'd need some really, really awesome reflector satellites that I'm not even sure could exist to guarantee perfect coverage though. Thought I'd address your heat concerns there. They're still concerns. About the only really relevant one you raised.

Your comments about teleportation have been discarded as the irrelevant and meaningless dross they are, since there is no real world basis for them unlike my beloved lasers and your beloved missiles. My scenario wasn't unbalanced. The Martians brought about a thousand 50 megaton shipkillers on complicated advanced missile platforms, which is equivelant to the entire nuclear arsenal of earth. Earth defended with a cool physics project and some manhole covers.

EDIT FOR HELPFULNESS: Look, if you REALLY want a ship that can reasonably engage a death ray, take an orion drive ship. Boost up as fast as you can, then turn around and coast in. The pusher plate's the best armor against that kind of ravening death ray your ship is going to have, and you can have backwards-utilized tracking torpedoes armed with nuclear warheads. Even then if you're engaged during the turn, or need to apply your nuclear rocket's thrust any way other than towards the enemy, you will be vulnerable to instant death.

There needs to be more than 10m of separation between an active fission plant and the crew due to radiation flux and those separators will be highly vulnerable to rays o' death.

th15: LIGHT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Though spinning missiles would help. In fact, spinning would always be a good idea when lasers are involved as it will help deposit laser energy across more surface area though against high enough power lasers that's not a good plan.

Also, LIGHT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. Short wavelengths interact with individual atoms and are not susceptible to reflection by surfaces. Instead you need to diffract them, which is a challenge but not unbearable. Unfortunately it's also highly directional, meaning if you misalign your x-ray lens your lens has heat deposition issues.
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Post by Noctis »

Müg wrote:...Wait, you think Lasers fire ions? Lasers fire nothing but photons, coherent light. They generate the coherent beam by stimulating the atoms in whatever is used as the gain medium to fire in phase, which is in phase due to quantum effects.

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation = LASER.

No ions, nothing but photons. Lasers are nothing but light in a coherent beam, and it gains its potentially destructive capabilities completely due to the fact it's incredibly focused. Even then, you need to pour a whole lot of energy in, which is why lasers are questionable as weaponry.

Attacking using a beam of ions would be closer to a mass driver, and would be a charged particle cannon rather than a laser.

I couldn't be assed to read through the entire topic since I have little doubt it's full of the occasional poster mouthing off about shit they don't care to actually understand, and I'd rather keep my nerd rage levels low for today, so I apologize if anything I said is redundant or already covered in this thread.
Sorry, I was thinking about particle beams, not lasers, when I was writing.
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Post by Sponge »

Talhydras wrote:Sponge: For my living this summer I aimed telescopes at objects four billion light years away. I'm not sure I centered the object totally perfectly, but given a template of the object the computer certainly could. Sure, it was a quasar and slightly bigger than a missile bus, but it was also quite far away.
I think you've sort of addressed this point for me. There is a huge difference between aiming at a galaxy and a missile probably no more than 10m across. Yes, the quasar is far away, but it's fucking huge. Further, distant celestial objects are so far away that, to someone with a telescope, they don't seem to move noticeably. The same could not be said for a rocket coming toward you at 100km/s, perhaps a light second away.
Tracking technology capable of milliarcsecond resolution and sub-arcsecond aiming is reality, buddy :D And it's only going to get better. I grant you this does NOT solve the lightspeed aiming problem (if its changed course in the time it takes your ray of chocolatey, gooey photonic death to travel, you still miss), but it sure helps the lightsecond range combat.
Tracking is also the simplest of the issues to solve. As you have aptly pointed out, we have respectable tracking systems already. Do note, however, that there is a difference between shooting down a cruise missile and an armored rocket travelling at 300 times the speed of sound, a light second away. Also, the tiniest aberration in one of your lenses/mirrors means your laser ain't hitting where it's supposed to. This feat still seems more impressive than any of the issues that would need to be overcome in the missile scenario, and it's the easiest dilemma to solve.
A 10 MW x-ray FEL like the one the death star had in the story vaporizes several cm of iron or graphite or glass (representative samples of ferrous, carbon, and composite starship hulls) in microseconds.
Source please? I'm not seeing how this is possible. 10MW is woefully unimpressive. That's 10MJ/sec. A microsecond is 1E-6sec, which means in a microsecond, you'll be pumping out a whopping 10J. This is about one eight-hundredth the amount of energy in a peanut. If you could somehow, most likely by act of god, keep your 10MW laser trained on the exact same spot, which we will call 50cm in diameter, for a full second, (this is so improbable it's not even funny, by the way) you would hardly make a dent in a ship with cheap steel armor. It's the approximate equivalent of 2kg of TNT. No, not 2 kilotons: 2 kilograms. You're going to rattle the crew, but will likely succeed in nothing else.
You don't need to be worried about a divot-sized hole, you need to be worried about your ship being cut in fucking half.
Again, unless I'm doing my maths wrong (totally possible, please tear me apart if this is the case, because I deserve it), this just won't be happening with your 10MW laser.
and your fan will be quite shitty.
I lol'd.
In a nutshell: Being hit on the smallest possible surface area is a good idea.
Smaller surface means less armor absorbing the same amount of energy, and so, being on the receiving end, I wouldn't agree with you. Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?
Presenting your ship's midsection to a daethray is a great way to get your command module separated from your thrusters.
Not if you've just got a 10MW laser. If you do have something truly devastating (which would be on the order of terawatts, as I mentioned before), this is true. It's also irrelevant, because the force of all that energy will start to be getting into the kiloton nuke range, which will just pulverize your ship and everything in it. Your egg will be thoroughly scrambled, and then thrown into my fucking fan.
the Death Star needs a 100 MW power supply. The three mile island nuclear plant, if I'm reading these figures right (which I might not be), generated eight times that power. So, you're dead wrong on power supply too.
This is assuming that a 10MW laser would actually be a "Death Star," and it wouldn't. It would be a "you-made-my-armor-a-bit-warm star." There's also a bit of a disconnect between "watts" and "joules." Watts are power, joules are energy. Power is energy over time, giving it a unit J/s. Energy is, therefore, P*t.That means you could have a 1TW laser that generates only a few joules of energy each burst, because it fires for some uselessly short period of time. You need to find a balance in how fast you release energy. Faster is obviously more damaging, but for sustained beams, you need to be able to generate lots of power if you want to actually pump some energy into your target. You're also going to be less efficient, and waste energy is bad. Not only does that energy not go into your enemy's ship, but it goes into yours, filling your limited heat-sink real estate. At the same time, if you drop, say, 20MJ over 1 second (requiring a power of 20MW), there's almost no chance you'll do any substantial damage. You can't focus a beam at the same spot on your target for a full second, when you consider that your targeting information was a second old when you fired, and two seconds by the time your beam arrives. Your enemy WILL be maneuvering. If you can't maneuver, you will die, and so maneuverability is a must. Your crew can pop some pills to deaden the effects of the constant, nauseating acceleration and deceleration. That way they can keep their lunches and I get less shit in my fan. If you dump that same amount of energy in a tenth of a second, you need power output capabilities at or above 100MW. Your damage will be more localized, but still rather minor, seeing as how 20MJ just isn't very much energy when you're trying to blow a hole in a chunk of steel.
Again, X-ray FELs are a reality; they're under construction in Europe.
Yes, they are. They're also not viable weapons by any stretch of the imagination. Nukes, on the other hand... those are pretty effective.
Improvements to the laser efficiency are a certainty.
No doubt.
The Death Star in my story is, therefore, a hybrid of a nuclear power plant, the X-ray FEL, and a phalanx CIWS. Making it... um... sorta modern tech? :P Oh fine not really
Not at all, actually, when you consider the fact that you'd need to consume around the same amount of energy as is used by the entire world, expelling it near instantaneously in the form of light. Seems rather impractical for at least several hundred years.
Your comments about teleportation have been discarded as the irrelevant and meaningless dross they are, since there is no real world basis for them unlike my beloved lasers and your beloved missiles.
You misunderstood the point I was trying to make, which is probably my fault, seeing as how you're not the first person to do so. I'm not at all making a case for teleportation weapons. I'm trying to illustrate that when you try to predict human technology hundreds of years in the future, it may not even be a fair assumption to say that something, such as a weapon, would be directly based on present technology. If I went back to the 1700s and told them that huge flying machines would enable people to cross the Atlantic in a matter of hours, I'd be ridiculed.
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Post by Anna »

If you could somehow, most likely by act of god, keep your 10MW laser trained on the exact same spot, which we will call 50cm in diameter, for a full second, (this is so improbable it's not even funny, by the way) you would hardly make a dent in a ship with cheap steel armor. It's the approximate equivalent of 2kg of TNT. No, not 2 kilotons: 2 kilograms. You're going to rattle the crew, but will likely succeed in nothing else.
I can't address the majority of the rest of your arguments, because I don't know the math, am not a physicist, and am generally not super knowledgeable about these things. But I do know that the laser Tal describes focuses on a much smaller point that a 50cm diameter. It's less than a 1cm diameter. And that sort of pin-point focus would make it tear nice little holes through your ship. Only if your ship was moving even a little (and it would be), those nice little holes would become ass-ripping tears.
This is assuming that a 10MW laser would actually be a "Death Star,"
Way to take it out of context. He was talking about the "Death Star" laser as described in his theoretical story thing.

I've heard conflicting things about the potential possibilities of how feasible this'd be, from people fairly educated in physics and the like, and I honestly don't know. But 10MW still would hurt a lot if focused in on a small enough point.

EDIT:
Oh hey! Fun fact!
On March 18, 2009 Northrop Grumman announced that its engineers in Redondo Beach had successfully built and tested an electric laser capable of producing a 100-kilowatt ray of light, powerful enough to destroy an airplane or a tank
100 kilowatts. Destroying a tank or an airplane. That's 100 times less powerful than the laser Talhydras is describing. 500 terrawatt lasers have been scientificly tested. I mean, nothing he described his particularly outrageous except for it being a Free Electron Laser (they're much bigger than electric or chemical lasers, really), and firing x-rays.
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Post by Noctis »

One thing that hasn't been touched on, and might be a possiblity, is firing massive bursts of radiation; enough to kill the crew of an opposing vessel without damaging the ship. You'd probably need a metric shit ton of rads, both to breach any radiation shieding the ship has, as well as to cause instant death or at least extreme rad posioning. Something like a Neutron bomb. Even if it's not fatal, the effects could completely cripple a vessel. Ship is no good if it's entire crew is vomiting and passing out.
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