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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:26 am 
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ChaosTheory wrote:
Do you want 20 unique ships, or just 20 ships total?


I think I'll leave that up to people to decide if they're entering on their own as long as it's not just 20 of the same ship, because 20 unique ships could be crazy for single entrants to make. Still, try not to use any ship more than a few times in your fleet, and keep Command ships unique for sure.

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Last edited by mtheminja on Fri May 30, 2008 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Hmm, I've been doing some calculations, and the speed stats are really restrictive . . . 20 points and 3 thrusters with 14 sections gives me 0.017 accel. These aren't stock ships . . . 14 sections is tiny.

Also, I'm assuming that if a thruster is 50 away horizontally and 30 away vertically from another thruster, it's legal? So the boundary area between thruster forms a sort of diamond shape? Cause if it needs to be 100 h and 60 v, that's REALLY restrictive. Might as well have to sets of space stations duking it out.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:27 pm 
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The problem is, you shouldn't be spending only 20 points; first, that's only 5 points in the old system, which isn't much; second, acceleration is supposed to take up a larger chuck of your budget this time; and third, your ships should have lower than usual acceleration for sure in this tournament anyways. I calibrated it with 50 points into acceleration giving a decently-handling ship for its size.

For the thrusters, yes, it is 100 h and 60 v (diamonds would be very difficult to use, so I would just lower the numbers if I wanted easier placement). However, a Cronus can fit 5 for it's 18 sections, giving it a very high ratio (0.28 ). While I know tourney ships are usually denser than that, designing ships with fitting thrusters on in mind should mean you can still a good ratio.

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Last edited by mtheminja on Sat May 31, 2008 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:40 pm 
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this looks like an interesting tournament. either the tournament imposes from the points :twisted:, or we get half hour long wars :D. i will join either way. i don't mind being on my own or on a team


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Is there anyway we can get some more HP/Section HP add(50)? 500 is a little low for a situation this crowded. It makes tach rushers a little too dangerous.

Also, I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but if you have a Tach Repeater + a Nanomatrix is that 30 sections total or is that 20 sections total? I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether or not all section requirements are cumulative or if only the section requirements of repeated modules are cumulative.

I think you need to add a rule clarification section on the first post so we don't have to dig.

Also, do you REALLY think that having no section restrictions for frosch guns and lancet beams is a good idea especially with all these large ships flying around?

PS. I'm a little worried about this tournement being biased towards large sectioned ships.

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Last edited by antisocialmunky on Fri May 30, 2008 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:16 pm 
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mtheminja wrote:
The problem is, you shouldn't be spending only 20 points; first, that's only 5 points in the old system, which isn't much; second, acceleration is supposed to take up a larger chuck of your budget this time; and third, your ships should have lower than usual acceleration for sure in this tournament anyways. I calibrated it with 50 points into acceleration giving a decently-handling ship for its size.

For the thrusters, yes, it is 100 h and 60 v (diamonds would be very difficult to use, so I would just lower the numbers if I wanted easier placement). However, a Cronus can fit 5 for it's 18 sections, giving it a very high ratio (0.28). While I know tourney ships are usually denser than that, designing ships with fitting thrusters on in mind should mean you can still a good ratio.


And we also have separate points for accel and turning?

Your 60/100 thing still makes no sense. If one thruster is 100 px away from another horizontally, but only 30 away vertically, you still want that to be illegal? Think of it like a chessboard, and each side of a sqaure is 100 px. If every thruster is 60/100 away from every other in each of two dimensions, it mean you can only have 1 thruster per 100 px tall row, and one per 100 px wide column. It turns into a game of Queen's Chess. Definitely not feasible.

60/100 px is still a lot. I suggest 40/60 ratio, and each thruster gets a boundary diamond with points at (60,0), (0,40), (-60,0), and (0,-40) relative to the thruster. Then another one can't be placed in that diamond.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:47 am 
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Actually, I already clarified that it was independent:
The first post wrote:
The sections/unit column says how many sections your ship must have for each unit you buy; e.g. to have 4 Deflector Shields and/or 3 demeter pods, you must have at least 24 sections.


If I bump up the max boosts to a single section to weaken tachyons, that exacerbates the bias towards large sections.

You're right, somehow I missed lancets and frosches in my balancing. I'll give lancets a 14 section/unit limit and change frosches's cost to 50, if that sounds good.

ChaosTheory wrote:
If one thruster is 100 px away from another horizontally, but only 30 away vertically, you still want that to be illegal?


No, that wouldn't make any sense. The 'not allowed zones' are squares, not infinite crosses. A thruster cannot both be closer than 100 pixels horizontally and 60 pixels vertically of another, but it could be anywhere horizontally as long as it is at least 60 pixels away vertically, and visa versa. If you want, I could upload an example ship. I definitely don't want to use diamonds.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:51 am 
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mtheminja wrote:
If I bump up the max boosts to a single section to weaken tachyons, that exacerbates the bias towards large sections.

If you want, I could upload an example ship. I definitely don't want to use diamonds.


I think you're already far too biased towards large ships than necessary. Big, slow, weak ships. (And can you give me a pic of you getting 5 engines strategically placed on a Cronus?)

What's wrong with diamonds? It just means we have more thrusters that are easier to hit and cut more stats when lost. Diamonds increase efficiency by about 25% on a ship with enough space for 4 engines.

Besides, what kind of ship has engines all over the hull?

Everything is just too damned expensive. It doesn't leave much room for creative weapon loadouts.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:11 am 
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First, diamonds are a big hassle to check while squares are easy. I'd rather shrink the squares.

Second, I think I've been convinced to lower the squares from 100/60 to 80/30 to help smaller ships.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:16 am 
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mtheminja wrote:
Second, I think I've been convinced to lower the squares from 100/60 to 80/30 to help smaller ships.


Thank you. Good enough.

Now my awesome ship will work again. :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:18 am 
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ChaosTheory wrote:
Everything is just too damned expensive. It doesn't leave much room for creative weapon loadouts.


Well, we are using 20 ships with four massive hulking command ships. That could be a reason why weapon numbers should be reduced. I mean look at the current tournamet ships, they have way too many weapons to be in amounts larger than 10, not to mention 20. There would be way too many damaging things on that screen.

Also on a side note, that could give some people seizures, all those flashing lights.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:26 am 
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elecboy wrote:
Also on a side note, that could give some people seizures, all those flashing lights.


Then why are they playing BSF in the first place? Besides, only 3% or so of people with epilepsy respond to flashing lights.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:02 am 
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:roll:

Most of the prices are *4 of the 100 point version with some adjustments made to update the rules to his tastes(Demeters are underpriced by ALOT).

The main issue I have right now is that the module/section is too high. It really just makes deflectors less useful which may or maynot be bad. Its too early to tell(pretty much 2 unless you're making a slow gun spam ship).

You should still impose a universal top speed. Otherwise, I'm going to break your competition :twisted: .

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:47 pm 
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Boredom. And I hate this veil-of-secrecy thing.

http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 9370#59370

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:57 pm 
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Nifty. And you're right, those asteroids look like win.

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