One Up Battle

Zirik · Post by **Zirik** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Yeah, I understand that now. 135 is okay.

As for making battles fair, I'd say use 4096 x 4096 sandbox, with the ships starting in opposite corners.

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:10 pm

Thats what I did.

That makes it harder for a ship loaded with weapons to take an early lead by either acquiring the other ship first or employing the weapons in an effort to overwhelm all defenses before a ship has a chance. It doesn't put slow ships at a disadvantage (and can sometimes help them, since fast ships tend to fall into the corner if they reach the slow ship too fast.)

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:04 pm

Next time highlight the ship you are fighting please. The piu is illegal I'm pretty sure as well.

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:14 pm

Sort of, he said it was 2 points over the limit do to it originally being made for the Mothership Assault tourny. What it does do is take advantage of a technicality. The rule states that weapons on the same section may not overlap. Since they are on seperate sections, with the rule as written, its alright for the platform deployers to overlap. Technically.

He did just submit it to get the ball rolling after all.

So that rule should be rewritten. No overlap at all.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:49 pm

Do sections normally regenerate on there own? I was fighting your ship wizard and her front two section seemed to go red then back to orange, then back to yellow a bunch of times vs my ship and the piu? Battled twice so far with Manyara Mk. II It won one I won one, still to close to call in my book. I'll run a few more eitherway. How many battles did you run against her wizard just one lol? The piu seemed to dominate the Manyara as well, if not for the sections regening on there own for some odd readon it would have killed your ship eventually or got rid of its weapons. I probably would have won the battle I lost too if not for the section regen. You had less then half your ship left even when it did beat the Chemosh. Good design though, I'm still curious as to how your sections are gettin back there hp though. Maybe a glitch I'm not sure, someone test wizards ships besides wizard or me please to make sure lol. I have some screenies I'll post here in a sec. Victory over the Manyara (two pics included) And the Minyara regening for some odd reason verses the piu, piu would have stripped her of her weapons and mods eventually eitherway from the way it went down on my end at least. vSomeone impartial run the battles to see who wins please

Or we will never have concrete results.

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:57 pm

Yes sections do have their own really slow healing ability. And yes, the Manyara gets annoyed at the Piu as they fight.

Usually the Piu wins, infact I had a Manyara Mk. III that I was going to use to beat the Piu, but then you posted.

And yeah, I just did one fight. I won, so I posted it.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:12 pm

Ah maybe try more then one fight before announcing yourself the winner lol. Fought the piu best of three and won 2 it won 1 before I announced defeating her. And section self regen sucks 8) So win 2 out of three before annoucing yourself the winner lol. Many ships could simply go back and forth winning and losing. One battle only does not mean you have won. Really need someone to run the battles, besides the ones submitting ships. Otherwise your gonna have people claiming they have won, but differnt results happen on differnt computers appearently. (I did use the default sized map, that may have played a big role in my win however on both occasions. And the platform AI cheese helps.)

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm

Okay, and lets set some ground rules for the fights eh?

4096x4096 map size.
6000 Detection range ("Maxrange" under game settings)
Ships start at the opposite edges of the map, in line with each other.

With these settings the Piu beats the Manyara, the Manyara beats the Chemosh, and the Chemosh beats the Piu. If you get the same results, we'll call these rules fair then?

I know the Chemosh beats the Manyara when the start really close together, but I consider it unfair to any ship if they have to start the game with four tach repeaters to the face.

Also the problem with starting close means that one ship acquires the target first (usually meaning that one ship gets its shots off first) Sound alright?

EDIT: Of course, if you can't run 4096x maps, the standard map should be fine, just set Maxrange to 3000, so ships will never lose contact. Really the thing that matters is that they don't start in firing range of each other.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:53 pm

Ground rules are needed for fairness. I personally hate sandbox boundary bouncing, so I set the map size to 9999x9999, place the mouse in the centre, mouse wheel scroll outwards 20 wheel 'clicks', then place the ships in diagonally opposite corners (which is still well inwards from the sandbox boundary corners). Maxrange = 99999. Then let them go at it, even if one ship is dead slow the combat takes place in deep space. If they are both movers then it occasionally moves to a boundary but that tends to be rare.

If I am comparing ships using my favorite settings, and somebody else is using default sandbox settings, the combat results can be very different! eg. starting a slow mover in a corner of default sandbox will probably mean that they will not get flanked without the other ship having to close in. Not true of a deep space fight.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:11 pm

I'll try it with those settings, still a good design wizard. Nice job. Definetly a keeper for the fleet tourney. Unless it gets distracted by a platform or hits a edge, it does extremely well and does win most of the time. ( It won 5 out of 8 vs the chemosh) Which is still close using the default settings. But in all victories it took some serious damage, so nothings perfect. (that I have seen) Its section self repair saves it when I play it due to the tac slow recharge. (started both ships in opposite corners, not sides of the map, which could also play a big role in the results) Seems one of my new ideas is fairly effective, we shall see about the rest. I still say ditch the platforms, the piu nor my ship would have done so well without them due to targeting issues.

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:30 pm

No, I needa new ship for the fleet. When it was just against the Mothership, its fine, but when its in and amongst fleets, it can easily be out flanked, its rear is where all the weapons are at, only protected by 2 sections. It can get detoothed, and sometimes get a whole half blown off.

My new battleship can a lot of these advantages, but is more protected all the way around, rather than just the front.

Together with my Cruiser and Frigate, my fleet should be a good competitor. I just need to name it.

And your's is a tough cookie. I yell at mine when it decides to turn its back on your ship for whatever reason, because a full tach barrage from the rear does ugly things to the Manyara(and any ship for that matter. :twisted: )

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:37 pm

One of each is pretty well balanced. But you may have a problem vs one of my set ups which uses more then just 3 ships to make up its fleet. And more then just one tactic involved. Alot of testing will need to take place with this coming fleet tourney, before anything is concrete however. If ya think trying to dodge one ship is bad, imagine 5 of them. Theres alot of possibilites to think about, and how to attack and defend against them all. Gonna be awsome to see how things work out.

Together with my Cruiser and Frigate, my fleet should be a good competitor

Can a battleship, a cruiser, and a frigate beat 5 battleships, we shall see

Or 15 - 20 point ships or etc.

TrashMan · Post by **TrashMan** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:33 am

For fun I tried a few ships I made for the new trournament against yours..

Hail to the King pwns everything so far with minimal or no damage. Methinks I'm gonna enter it in the next tournament :twisted:

the202 · Post by **the202** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:13 am

Heres my Ship http://www.wyrdysm.com/battleshipsforev ... nement.shp

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:45 am

Eep! Missiles can circle around and hit flankers now.

They werent able to do that back in v.84 days. Even launchers facing the entirely wrong direction can fire them now, also gaining a nice curve to slam at flanks.

Anyone else think thats enough to bump missiles up to 2 points a pop? Or maybe have the first 1.5 point weapon?