[Fri 09] [22:09:27] <HorseMonster> Shivans are gay, needs better outsiders.
[Fri 09] [22:09:46] <~Arcalane> well fine if you can come up with a better idea go for it >:|
[Fri 09] [22:10:37] <HorseMonster> dude, you can rip off any other alien race from anything ever and get a less horribly cliche result.
[Fri 09] [22:10:53] <~Arcalane> >:|
[Fri 09] [22:11:31] <HorseMonster> As much as the shivans are good antagonists ripping them off wholesale is a dick move.
[Fri 09] [22:11:43] <HorseMonster> You could at least change their colour scheme.
[Fri 09] [22:12:33] <HorseMonster> Making the NPC outsiders look so obviously malevolent is Lame.
[Fri 09] [22:12:39] <HorseMonster> Capital L for emphasis.
[Fri 09] [22:15:05] <~Arcalane> do you have any better ideas? besiiiiides they're supposed to be all blah and evil
[Fri 09] [22:15:25] <~Arcalane> http://www.wyrdysm.com/arcalane/meta2/Caliga-Convoy.png derp
[Fri 09] [22:15:55] <HorseMonster> I saw your freighters, they are pretty reasonable.
[Fri 09] [22:16:06] <HorseMonster> Better ideas? Okay, why don't we try this:
[Fri 09] [22:16:27] <~Arcalane> I didn't make them myself, I think W&W might have sent them to me a long time ago as a Meta1 Union freighter.
[Fri 09] [22:16:37] <~Arcalane> but I doubt he'll mind
[Fri 09] [22:17:56] * ~Arcalane waitsss~
[Fri 09] [22:19:05] <HorseMonster> Instead of ripping off a well known IP in order to create a boring and generic "enemy" in a game where the players are already going to be surrounded by other hostile players as well as pirates and the remnant, why don't we try to come up with an outsider faction, the concept for which is origional and the behaviour and motivations of which provide players with multiple different potential...
[Fri 09] [22:19:07] <HorseMonster> ...courses of interaction?
[Fri 09] [22:19:33] <~Arcalane> we could certainly try
[Fri 09] [22:19:55] <HorseMonster> God knows there are going to be enough "mean dudes who blow our ships up"
[Fri 09] [22:20:11] <~Arcalane> pffff
[Fri 09] [22:20:25] <~Arcalane> I expect meta2 to devolve into HIPPY NATION without players like Squishy
[Fri 09] [22:21:35] <~Arcalane> also the remnant mostly sits on it's arse and looks pretty, whilst making idle threats
[Fri 09] [22:21:58] <HorseMonster> Which is another reason why we need NPCs that aren't just enemies to gang up against.
[Fri 09] [22:22:15] <~Arcalane> bah, I say!
[Fri 09] [22:25:04] <~Arcalane> but if you get any good ideas go post them in the relevant thread or somethin', maybe my muse will spin them out if it feels like it .-.
[Fri 09] [22:26:43] <HorseMonster> for a starter we should give our outsiders some sort of objective and motivation, even if the players never learn what it is.
[Fri 09] [22:27:10] <HorseMonster> An entity that is just there and mean for no particular reason is...
[Fri 09] [22:27:12] <~Arcalane> like what? I got nothin'
[Fri 09] [22:28:05] <~Arcalane> they shouldn't be friendly though. Their sole purpose is to basically pop up and suckerpunch people if they start getting too complacent and if things start devolving into hundreds of peace treaties.
[Fri 09] [22:28:16] <~Arcalane> from an out-of-game PoV
[Fri 09] [22:28:31] <~Arcalane> theoretically they might not ever show up
[Fri 09] [22:30:09] <HorseMonster> That kind of behaviour would imply that they are opportunistic in nature.
[Fri 09] [22:30:41] <~Arcalane> taking advantage of the locals getting too relaxed, hmm?
[Fri 09] [22:31:11] <HorseMonster> Which suggests that they are either unable or unwilling to actually wipe anyone out.
[Fri 09] [22:31:37] <~Arcalane> the locals, or them? I'm undecided if they should nuke colonies tbh
[Fri 09] [22:32:09] <~Arcalane> I'd feel bad if they wiped out a player in like, two or three turns with minimal losses
[Fri 09] [22:32:59] <HorseMonster> The outsiders.
[Fri 09] [22:33:56] <HorseMonster> Also where the hell do they come from, if there are potentially outsider factions coming from every direction, where the heck can you get these guys from?
[Fri 09] [22:34:06] <~Arcalane> HAMMERSPACE
[Fri 09] [22:34:25] <HorseMonster> Indeed it feels like it's time to open up another dimension!
[Fri 09] [22:34:29] <~Arcalane> I think there's only like... Droid thinking about being an Outsider now
[Fri 09] [22:34:52] <~Arcalane> well as the Outsider thing implies, there are multiple 'layers' of lane/node space
[Fri 09] [22:35:08] <~Arcalane> they need not all come from the same layer, of course
[Fri 09] [22:38:18] <HorseMonster> Regardless, we need some kind of enigmatic purpose, all great alien races have some strange unidentifiable purpose.
[Fri 09] [22:38:24] <HorseMonster> Just look at the Orz.
[Fri 09] [22:38:33] <HorseMonster> WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY WANT
[Fri 09] [22:38:58] <~Arcalane> Orz <3
[Fri 09] [22:39:12] <~Arcalane> hmmm
[Fri 09] [22:39:26] <~Arcalane> maybe they could make beelines for the Artefacts?
[Fri 09] [22:39:57] <~Arcalane> they hold some bizarre religious reverance for the Ancients, and go around 'collecting' and 'preserving' all functional artefacts
[Fri 09] [22:40:36] <HorseMonster> Maybe, perhaps they just know who made them and what they do and subsequently want them.
[Fri 09] [22:41:03] <HorseMonster> Or perhaps they are the origional creators of the artefacts.
[Fri 09] [22:41:36] <~Arcalane> why would they suddenly come back after millenia, though?
[Fri 09] [22:41:56] <~Arcalane> given that the artefacts are just a tiny sample of their technological abilities...
[Fri 09] [22:42:45] <HorseMonster> fuck knows.
[Fri 09] [22:43:28] <~Arcalane> I suppose that's part of the enigma
[Fri 09] [22:43:28] <HorseMonster> Perhaps the node destablisation was a cascading effect that started at their layer?
[Fri 09] [22:43:36] <~Arcalane> NICE JOB BREAKING IT GUYS
[Fri 09] [22:44:21] <HorseMonster> Took thousands of years to propegate through the node layers but ended up knocking out several of them.
[Fri 09] [22:44:53] <~Arcalane> "Uh hey guys we're just coming to take these away before you do something -really stupid- like cause another cascade, kthxbai."
[Fri 09] [22:49:28] * Verminator (cgiirc@7AC135A0.AC3A645C.E45C8055.IP) has joined #BSFCE
[Fri 09] [22:49:41] <~Arcalane> xenophobic + bizarre attachment to the artefacts might be a bit too Covenant-y though. hrm.
[Fri 09] [22:50:24] <Verminator> It might be somewhat appropriate to Fanatics.
[Fri 09] [22:50:38] <~Arcalane> we're just discussing the NPC Outsiders
[Fri 09] [22:50:54] <Verminator> I see
[Fri 09] [22:50:56] <~Arcalane> HM disapproves of Shivan ripoffs so we're just bouncing around ideas
[Fri 09] [22:51:28] <Verminator> Well, no worries. There's thousands of races out there to rip off.
[Fri 09] [22:51:41] <HorseMonster> Artefact collectors wouldn't justify zapping complacant players though.
[Fri 09] [22:51:53] <~Arcalane> this is also true
[Fri 09] [22:52:45] <HorseMonster> We could rip off the aliens from X-com and have them try and overthrow the region through espionage, infiltration and blowing shit up.
[Fri 09] [22:52:59] <~Arcalane> (also; cattle abduction)
[Fri 09] [22:53:06] <HorseMonster> And that.
[Fri 09] [22:53:11] <Verminator> Maybe a race that's into mass abduction / experiments / torture? It'd be like the classic grey-skinned, big-eyed aliens, but on galactic scale
[Fri 09] [22:53:22] <Verminator> Holy shit you took the words right out of my mouth almost.
[Fri 09] [22:53:27] <~Arcalane> ehhh, probably overdone
[Fri 09] [22:53:46] <~Arcalane> besides, torture and experimentation on live subjects doesn't sit right with me
[Fri 09] [22:53:48] <HorseMonster> "Hey *playerfaction* want us to remove the defenses around X planet? Okay, just remember that you owe us"
[Fri 09] [22:53:57] <Verminator> Less overdone than the KILL ALL HUMANS BECAUSE RELIGION aliens.
[Fri 09] [22:54:08] <~Arcalane> ha
[Fri 09] [22:54:40] <HorseMonster> The consequence is that 4 turns later you want you to pay up.
[Fri 09] [22:54:49] <~Arcalane> you want you?
[Fri 09] [22:54:57] <HorseMonster> And the bill come to 10% of each of your planets population!
[Fri 09] [22:55:12] <~Arcalane> and then WAR or morale loss \o/
[Fri 09] [22:55:58] <Verminator> Maybe they could be a faction that's looking for new territory because they've run out of habitation in their old galaxy and they found a warp relay to ours, and so they send a "slash and burn" expedition to clear the sentients already there and prep the galaxy for mass colonization.
[Fri 09] [22:56:32] <HorseMonster> That would mandate much more agression than is practical.
[Fri 09] [22:57:12] <~Arcalane> but aggression good!
[Fri 09] [22:58:02] <Verminator> Well, either exterminate or just subjugate maybe. "[Faction], we won't kill you if you help us, we'll just make you our slaves / client race instead. Deal?"
[Fri 09] [22:58:32] <~Arcalane> fantastic negotiation there
[Fri 09] [22:59:05] <Verminator> Hey, once a few worlds are glassed that starts looking like a good deal.
[Fri 09] [22:59:25] <~Arcalane> also, on an unrelated note
[Fri 09] [22:59:40] <~Arcalane> [Fri 09] [22:01:01] <Siber> Any idea what form place names would take?
[Fri 09] [22:59:40] <~Arcalane> [Fri 09] [22:01:14] <Siber> New Foo, real star names, random consonants?
[Fri 09] [22:59:40] <~Arcalane> [Fri 09] [22:01:59] <Arcalane> well, the meta1 map was basically a dozen shoutouts mixed with real star names... outer systems will probably be random constonants (RGX-519, etc.) but inner systems are named
[Fri 09] [23:01:12] <Verminator> That'd be something for the peons to do. A "make up as many planet names as possible" thread. We'd get what we want thanks to the thousand typewriter monkeys principle.
[Fri 09] [23:01:17] <HorseMonster> I think the Drakh and the Shadows might be good races for references.
[Fri 09] [23:01:35] <~Arcalane> Drakh? sounds familiar but I can't place it. and B5 Shadows, right?
[Fri 09] [23:01:40] <HorseMonster> Good old Babylon 5.
[Fri 09] [23:01:45] <HorseMonster> Both are B5
[Fri 09] [23:01:48] <~Arcalane> ah
[Fri 09] [23:02:39] <HorseMonster> The Drakh were a race that were the bitches of the Shadows and after the shadows are gone they fiddle around with the galaxy quietly.
[Fri 09] [23:03:04] <~Arcalane> so I see
[Fri 09] [23:05:33] <~Arcalane> I'm not sure the players will be able to keep a lid on it, or be that easy to manipulate though. Depends.
[Fri 09] [23:06:52] <HorseMonster> Offer them all the same thing, one of them will say yes.
[Fri 09] [23:06:56] <Verminator> Well, we might just have to do the heavy lifting ourselves. Might there not be a word generator on t'interwebs somewhere for this kind of shit?
[Fri 09] [23:07:28] <~Arcalane> hmmm
[Fri 09] [23:07:44] <~Arcalane> maybe they watched the Collapse from afar, and have extensive knowledge of pre-collapse supply caches
[Fri 09] [23:07:47] <Verminator> In fact, hold there a minute
[Fri 09] [23:08:40] <~Arcalane> 'supply caches' covering anything from surviving structures and ships to tech and resource stockpiles, or even 'strategic'-type weaponry
[Fri 09] [23:09:15] <Verminator> And they swoop in to cash in?
[Fri 09] [23:09:26] <~Arcalane> naw, they bribe people with the locations of the caches
[Fri 09] [23:10:28] <~Arcalane> "Do this for us and we'll hand you the coordinates to a supply cache"
[Fri 09] [23:10:53] <Verminator> And then they hand you the coordinates to some place on the other side of the galaxy?
[Fri 09] [23:11:09] <~Arcalane> if they're feeling dickish or you get it done poorly
[Fri 09] [23:12:05] <Verminator> Well, I didn't find a star name generator yet, but I did find this:
[Fri 09] [23:12:08] <Verminator> http://donjon.bin.sh/sf/system/
[Fri 09] [23:12:12] <~Arcalane> or they might just drop off the location of a huge cache deep in someone else's territory
[Fri 09] [23:12:25] <~Arcalane> to the surrounding factions