Motherships Tournament ##Judging in Progress##

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Ok yeah lots of posts lol since I last looked. I just confirmed the problem with all the weapons not firing while testing my new ugly duck test mother as an ally. But then as a enemy it fired just fine. Definetly confirmed. So whoever is the ally will have the disadvantage if this comes about. Again problem confirmed, with something I have made in the past two days. So yeah, definetly something to take into account. Ally weapons have a huge problem firing in alot of tests. Enemy no such problem exists.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:27 pm

DarkenShroud wrote:Ok yeah lots of posts lol since I last looked. I just confirmed the problem with all the weapons not firing while testing my new ugly duck test mother as an ally. But then as a enemy it fired just fine. Definetly confirmed. So whoever is the ally will have the disadvantage if this comes about. Again problem confirmed, with something I have made in the past two days. So yeah, definetly something to take into account. Ally weapons have a huge problem firing in alot of tests. Enemy no such problem exists.

So thats what is going on. I made a test ship for a concept I wanted to try, and less than 25% of the weapons fired. I only tried it as an ally ship, didn't try it as an enemy. That is a huge bug in a tourney like this that pushes the weapons limits.

TehJarl · Post by **TehJarl** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:29 pm

Team Gamma, please.

Mr_Wizard · Post by **Mr_Wizard** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm

I think the problem might lie in the targeting distance between them. For an ally, their weapons have to be closer to the target before even tracking the ships target, where as the enemy AI will utilize the weapon range to the fullest (or at least more than the allies). I didnt notice this at first, probably because I like to set my AI range smaller than most consider wise. Maybe try lowering the AI Range your ships try to stay at, and see if more weapons fire?

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:02 pm

Nope. It seems to be a function of number of weapons. When weapons start getting sniped off, the non-functional weapons will become active.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:38 pm

Yeah distance didn't matter. My mother was in a corner at one point against 4 ships and was close enough for them to fire there pulses. And more then 50 percent of my weapondry failed to fire. And they were well within the distance seeing they could fire there close range weapons, yet only a fraction of my weapons fired period. Definetly a problem with tourney results in this format. Might need to have 4 match's total for each battle. 2 as a enemy team, 2 as a ally team to make it fair. Yes there maybe ties, but at least it will be fair for both sides, seeing this bug is big time. And will severly affect the results.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:17 pm

Like I said before, I'd just half the points - otherwise fights would be boring.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:03 am

Not really boring, just one sided in case of motherships and firing problems. I found my tests to be quite fun actually. And think the fights here will be extremely fun to watch. Just want it to be fair really.

Daxx · Post by **Daxx** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:25 am

DarkenShroud wrote:Just want it to be fair really.

I'm doing my best. If anyone else has any suggestions I'm willing to listen to them.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:38 am

Halving the points will make just about all weapons to fire. Its not a real challenge if one of the motherships is gimped. We will never have an even fight between our other ships. If we half the points on it, then 90%+ of our weapons will fire for the allied mothership.

Besides, super turtle ships have an unfair advantage if they spend 200 points on weapons and 280 on modules since the performance of those ships will be the same as both allied and enemy.

The other option is that we could have 2 400 point motherships instead of one big 800 point ship. Besides, the 800 pointships need some sort of speed cap. 10+ speed is just too much. Escorts can't catch it and 2 10 speed motherships cirlcing each other can't even fire at each other. If we went to a 400 point system, that wouldn't be a problem either.

Another solution is doubling points for all weapons, damage output on beam weapons, ROF on PD, and burst on projectile weapons for the mothership. Since modules don't seem affected, and the main problem is weapon count, if we just halved the amount of weapons, then we're good.

I posted in the bug report about this problem a long time ago and I don't think that TH15 or anyone really took note.

mtheminja · Post by **mtheminja** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:13 am

antisocialmunky wrote:Another solution is doubling points for all weapons, damage output on beam weapons, ROF on PD, and burst on projectile weapons for the mothership. Since modules don't seem affected, and the main problem is weapon count, if we just halved the amount of weapons, then we're good.

I second this idea. To make it so we still need to use the same amount of sections, how about motherships only get one weapon (or two modules) parented to a single section, but weapons get double damage.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:02 am

mtheminja wrote:
antisocialmunky wrote:Another solution is doubling points for all weapons, damage output on beam weapons, ROF on PD, and burst on projectile weapons for the mothership. Since modules don't seem affected, and the main problem is weapon count, if we just halved the amount of weapons, then we're good.
I second this idea. To make it so we still need to use the same amount of sections, how about motherships only get one weapon (or two modules) parented to a single section, but weapons get double damage.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Daxx · Post by **Daxx** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:20 am

No, that's a horrible solution, because it throws balance completely out of whack. Keeping the same points ratio just isn't an option if you're going to mess with the weapons.

If everyone would like, I can halve the point budgets of the motherships (and possibly lower section and section HP costs to boot, so that the ships are still pretty massive).

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:31 am

Keep the same speed stats, modifying the section/hp stats and halve the points would be a good compromise.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:35 am

Runnin two battles each making a fleet enemy twice and ally twice should surfice. Even if ties happen, that would be the easiest solution instead of redoing the entire point system in general. I can still see a superior team winning even if they are the allies and have a half capable mothership. Even at half strenth my test mothership elimanted loads of ships, and another test mothership one on one.

I'm gonna test out a few hunches I have as to this problem. Like max range setting in the sandbox, and changes of size and placements. I think the settings in the sandbox itself maybe the problem. I'm gonna try to see if I can weed out this problem if possible.