Destroy the Juggernaut - Team 1 - Pirates

Droid · Post by **Droid** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:43 am

antisocialmunky wrote:Nice, you might want to reduce turning or take off a frosch and throw points into acc. About 15-20, perhaps. Otherwise it might be better able to stay behind a target.

yea, I think I went overboard by maxing frosh and lancets

we'll see though...

TheBlueEcho · Post by **TheBlueEcho** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:41 am

Super Shock Sniper Ship FTW!

General Info:
Creator: TBE
Team: Pirate
Name: PointTram
HP: 300
Description: The Ultimate Fleet Disabler
Number of sections: 12
Total HP: 4100
Number of weapons: 22
Number of modules: 9

Grand Total = 161p
Diff: 11p

Download will be sent Via PM, along with point list.

Two of these Ships crippled Comm's blaster spam ship under 1 min. They just flew in, Pew Pew went the Frosches, Pew Pew went the Lancets, and the ship was leveled in no time. However the weirdest thing happened after the ship loss all weaponry. PT fired another volley of Frosch at the target, sending it to Hull shock hell, then the ship just Blew up. Like a self destruct, or a Kinetic Missile, only I didn't do it. My Guess is that the ship goes Kamakazi if all it's weapons are removed, since it has nothing else to do.

However the real matter, as you can see, is it is over point limit. Any ideas on how to cut that extra 11p down? Should I take similar advice given to droid and drop some Turn points?

Droid · Post by **Droid** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:51 am

Less particle guns, more flak?
With the amount of PD all in the form of flak...nothing can get close.

You don't really need the secondary deflector, as there is only one front bunker section

And yes, ships go Kamikaze after all weapons/models are gone. Automatically.

TheBlueEcho · Post by **TheBlueEcho** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:03 am

Make sure you play with the ship too. Should be in your PM box.

I only put Particles there for Long range Defence. I even strategicly placed them so you get a Machine gun effect like you get with flak. Also note that the millitary plans to use Demeters and Plasma Barages against us, the fore being harder to hit and the latter making flak not as useful. but if more people say "Drop them" then I will I guess.

I did think about droping the Deflector. I just might do that.

And I didn't know about the auto Kamikaze. Thanks.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:32 am

What I don't get one to play with?

How does it do against one of the dauntlesses?

mtheminja · Post by **mtheminja** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:06 pm

Well, the PointTram looks awesome from where I'm sitting. When I use it + one other pirate ship vs a variety of about 6 other tourney ships (pirate, projectile, or otherwise), the pirate ship survives much longer than it other wise (letting it do significant damage, considering 2 vs 6 odds), and the PointTram never gets hurt. A nano would let it last forever, but it's better as it is. Actually, I think you're right to have a strong complement of particle cannons to go with you're flak, considering that it's supposed to destroy projectiles headed for friendlies which could be out of flak range. This one's a winner!

EDIT: While I was typing this, and experiment finished. STOP SIGN + PointTram vs 2 dauntless VIs, a dauntless V, a pulsar spammer, and a Sub Rosa results in the pulsar spammer and Sub Rosa dying, with a stalemate with the dauntlesses + full health PointTram + half killed STOP SIGN in endless circle mode. WOOT!

EDIT 2: Uh oh. You can't buff your speed past 4 (You're at 4.3). That shouldn't affect it much, though. Also, all your offensive modules should be using Idea 1A, in the PM list I sent you.

Commodore111, are the pirates going to get to see the Juggernaut before the end of the tournament? We have a full team now.... You could PM it to us (except ASM, of course; sorry, but you probably understand.).

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:24 pm

Well, I've jsut asked COM to give my spot to Lloyd since he's all by himself on Team 2.

So I'm a pirate now.

TheBlueEcho · Post by **TheBlueEcho** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

@ Munky: Sorry, sent you one now.
And besides, Pirates FTW!

@ Minja: Ok. Fix the Speed (Again...), and Apply you Idea.
Glad it is performing well. Think you can try it against a Plasma spammer?

@ All: I still have 7 points over the limit to get rid of. (I dropped a Deflector)

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:03 pm

Its alright. You might want to increase the range since you ship is pretty much open from the back.

It works great against plasma spam.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:41 am

I have a problem to pose to all you pirates. We are supposed to be a resourceful bunch, so I'm sure we'll come up with some solutions.

So far one dominant design has shown up in the pirate section of this tournement: The Clamshell.

The Clamshell is what I like to call the 2 Aegis, 2 Deflector section setup or more generally the 2 Aegis setup. It has several advantages and disadvantages.

First the advantages:
1. High degree of coverage(260)
2. Can take a whole lot of punishment
3. Generally small threat circles
4. Allows for low HP values with more spending on weapons
5. Pretty much removes the threat from lancets

Then the disadvantages:
1. Highly vulnerable to plasma charges
2. Can be simply overwhelmed by massed fire power
3. 16-24 points that equal 1600-2400 HP or lots of guns(though obviously we need to adopt some sort of defensive option)

The clamshell combined with insane amounts of HP is fairly invunerable except to plasma charges but it takes 10+ on each aegis to do this. That's 2 - 20 weapons. The clamshell can also be modified to have thick sections to minimize damage from plasmas such as 26s.

So here's the question: What are the alternatives to the clamshell.

So far there's only been one other real method. Ablative armor - armor that's designed to blow off. However, I don't agree that its right for us pirates since ablative armor only shines if you're planning on getting pounded like Iron Snow flake or one of Com's blaster boats.

Droid · Post by **Droid** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:56 am

Flak Massacres Plasmas.
Which is why I have 8.

If 6 Flaks can nullify 50 Blasters, I think 8 can safely nullify upwards of 80 (due to the flak property of being more effective the more of it there is, and the more fire that is thrown at it).

If the Military go mass plasmas, they'll get raped by the Juggernaut. I hope its (much) tougher than a single clamshell boat >.>

Ablative armor doesn't work well, since we can only have frigates. Sections are expensive for us.

mtheminja · Post by **mtheminja** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:50 am

Well, it would be pretty stupid not to use any aegis at all, and if you use two aegis, the rules pretty much force a clamshell unless you build a big ship. Also, there is nothing specific to clamshells with regards to being overwhelmable by massed fire. Plasma is the only major downside to using two aegis, but I've yet to see any of our pirate ships with flak get hit with significant amounts, no matter how many dauntless VI I throw at them. And you're right, using 26 give near invincibilty to frontal plasma.

But I have explored alternatives. In fact, I'm have a hard time bettering one idea. I got rid of everying but my one frontal aegis and spammed scatter beams behind it. Then I gave it 0 AI range. It basically kills everything (200 damage per frame, and pirate's speed to get on to cores while dodging enough fire on the way), even in fleet on fleet testing (6 such scatter spammers vs one of every other tournament design I've gotten my hands on leads to 4 fully healthy scatter spammers winning). So maybe the best defense it a good offense, or in this case killing things before they get off 2 shots. How's that for an alternative. ~8 points for frontal aegis (maybe with hp buff), ~20 points for movement, ~30 sections, and ~90 points of weaponry, going straight to the core to kill. (Another fun weapon to use for this was pulsars at point blank, as they bust even hp buffed aegis the instant they go 'live', but in practice they're useless since they'll have enough flak to stop it. Probably :twisted: ) Plasma, missles, or other normally easily PDed projectiles like this strategy too (maybe this is repeater gun's time to shine

). It's basically the final solution done right, since we can get on cores quickly (a dietering might still be good, though).

Also, I think we should basically scrap lancets. This is going to be a fierce fight; any sections not deflectored or aegised get blown off quickly enough that if a weapon can be hit by the lancet, it's about to be blown off anyways.

Droid · Post by **Droid** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:50 pm

Which means...I can free points for MOAR SCATTERBEAMS! If we don't need lancets.

Repeater guns...I've always though they were underrated...but maybe they can actually accomplish something in such huge humbers...

nah, scatterbeams will probably do more damage anyway.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:27 am

Yeah... I'm begining to give up on the whole 'blow off aegis' because its too unrealiable. I have a ship that should theoretically always burst fire... but it doesn't...

Scatter Beams FTW is starting to look attractive again, along with plasmas.

Natch · Post by **Natch** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:50 pm

Sidwes Manta

Sections: 14 Points
Section HP Bonuses: 20 Points

Speed: 2 Points(2.3)
Turning: 5 Points(1.55)
Accl: 8 Points(0.08)

Tachyon Drivers: 18 Points
Gat Blasters: 12 Points
Point Defenses: 12 Points

Nano-Matrix: 15 Points
Aegis Deflectors: 16 Points
Deflectors: 16 Points
Lancet Beam: 12 Points

Total: 150 Points

PM me for download.