Destroy the Juggernaught - Team 1 Millitary FTW

Various custom ship tournaments go here, along with old encounters.

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XxKiraYamatoxX
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Post by XxKiraYamatoxX »

Jafo wrote:Orion - (this is not meant as an personal attack - just an honest assessment, please take it as such) This seems to be a ship from a conceptual fleet rather than a true fighting ship. It looks very good, but doesn't really hold up well in combat. Far too slow speed, and while it can be placed so that it can get involved in the initial dust up, if the ships move at all it gets left behind. Very slow turning means any flanking ship gets beside and behind very easily, and while the only pirate ship available currently is Dauntless II I don't think it would be much different no matter what ship you faced. Facing a single Dauntless II the Orion is destroyed in just under 60 seconds from the time the first shot is fired. Sorry, but this either needs a major overhaul or a complete redesign.
Back to the drawing boards then. I don't mind people criticizing me as long as they don't go as far as flaming me.
Commodore111
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Post by Commodore111 »

Jafo wrote:
Commodore111 wrote:sorry jafo but that ship won't work. you need to have a gap inbetween them. You have an invincible wall in the front.
You just made that up because it is not in the rules (130 degrees max - check, 40 degrees gap - check). Anyways, this is not a tourney about going against a single ship that can't get around an Aegis in the front. There are multiple ships so any ship on the sides can get to this ship. You have not said that any of the other ships that have an invincible wall on an entire side is illegal which is the same thing except rotated around?
you have a po9int I guess, you can use that ship, sorry for being like that.
Jafo
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Post by Jafo »

Commodore111 wrote:
Jafo wrote:
Commodore111 wrote:sorry jafo but that ship won't work. you need to have a gap inbetween them. You have an invincible wall in the front.
You just made that up because it is not in the rules (130 degrees max - check, 40 degrees gap - check). Anyways, this is not a tourney about going against a single ship that can't get around an Aegis in the front. There are multiple ships so any ship on the sides can get to this ship. You have not said that any of the other ships that have an invincible wall on an entire side is illegal which is the same thing except rotated around?
you have a po9int I guess, you can use that ship, sorry for being like that.
Thanks! I realize that running a Tourney is demanding, and I appreciate the time you are putting in (and will put in as you actually run it). Just realize that rules that suddenly appear out of the blue a week after starting it is disconcerting to all those taking part. Anything else you assume we know but you haven't stated explicitly yet? :P :lol:
Commodore111
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Post by Commodore111 »

Not really. my head hurts right now from doing homework so I can't really give a reply right now. :?
XxKiraYamatoxX
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Post by XxKiraYamatoxX »

Here's the new Orion. I swapped the blasters on the main deck for plasmas and added a coupla sidewinders. Also increased speed and turning.

Other changes:
-Aegised sections widened
-Swapped point beams for flak guns
-Added Demeters
-Deflector sections moved
-Impeders removed, replaced by Weasels.

Image
Name: Orion
HP: 500
Speed: 1.05
Turning: 0.50
AI Range: 500
Accel: 0.05
Description: Battleship
Number of sections: 51
Total HP: 14850
Number of weapons: 35
Number of modules: 10

Weapon List:
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|-1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|-1
weapon|Sidewinder|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|-1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|GatBlaster|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaBeam|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||16777215|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaBeam|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||16777215|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Pulsar|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||16776960|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Pulsar|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||16776960|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Weasel|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Weasel|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Demeter|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Demeter|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Demeter|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1

Module List:
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||12632256|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||12632256|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|AegisDeflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||12632256|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|AegisDeflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||12632256|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Booster|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|12632256|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Booster|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|12632256|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Lancet|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Lancet|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
antisocialmunky
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Post by antisocialmunky »

I think an interesting idea would be to have around two demeter ships distract enemy PD so we can get hits in with projectile ships if we adost the projectile route.

Projectiles work very well against isolated pirate ships. If we build slower ships and stay together, we can defend against enemy projectiles.
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Commodore111
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Post by Commodore111 »

maybe I should make a ship with 50 pointbeams, thats a thought XD.
Master Chief
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Post by Master Chief »

@XxKiraYamatoxX:

The new Orion...doesn't take advantage of the rules. Commodore111 has already said that sections may have unlimited shrinking so long as they do not become practically invisible. Orion being a battleship...it's gonna be locked on by all of those Pirate frigates and the Juggernaut itself, so I suggest you go and create a midget version of your ship. Oh, and remember that one section can hold up to 3 weapon/modules with overlapping, so just pack your (tiny) sections to the max with weapons, and also use up your given 2 Aegises and 4 deflectors to the best by having larger (reinforced) sections placed in strategic locations to get the best of deflector coverage. Your current ship seems to be something with too many exposed sections, which is not very helpful to those deflectors which are trying their best to cover the biggest area they can get. Which isn't too big, by the way.

I'm quite sorry, but I personally feel that you either need to shrink the Orion, or go back to the drawing board to create an entirely new ship. This Orion's going to get destroyed rather horribly if it were your tournament entry. You don't want to embarrass Terran Fleet HQ, do you? :wink:
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Jafo
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Post by Jafo »

In the Mothership tourney, lancets could play a huge role in stripping that large target of weapons/modules. With this tourney, the target is different with frigates being the target + the Juggernaut which is going to be roughly twice as big as any other ship on their team (listed at about 280 points). The smaller and faster ships with better shielding due to the Aegis rules + deflector shields, makes using lancets iffy.

However, I think Frosch modules are going to play a large role in this tourney. The ability to take power away from deflector shields and leave the enemy ship temporarily vulnerable is going to be key, as the defences otherwise are extremely tough to get past. The Frosch works better against smaller ships than large, and a number of small ships is what I think we are going to be facing.
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Post by EndlessInfinity »

Image
-made with no overlapping, just because I wasn't sure on the rules. If I can, then I'll move the mega tachs further inside

Code: Select all

Name: Exitium MKI
HP: 400
Speed: 3.80
Turning: 1.70
AI Range: 400
Accel: 0.10
Description:  
Number of sections: 18
Total HP: 6215.86
Number of weapons: 16
Number of modules: 8

Weapon List: 
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Railgun|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Railgun|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Railgun|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Railgun|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|Plasma|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaTachyon|42.50|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaTachyon|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|PointMaser|180|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaTachyon|42.50|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1
weapon|MegaTachyon|45|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|1|1

Module List: 
module|AegisDeflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Booster|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|AegisDeflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Booster|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
module|Deflector|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1||-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1|-1|-1
[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/EndlessInfinity/Endsig.jpg[/img]
antisocialmunky
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Post by antisocialmunky »

You've forgot to set all your section HPs. Also, Rail guns might not be able to do crap against those lame clamshell designs those cheap pirates are using. :wink:

I also don't think that Tachs are a great choince against fast ships. You might be able to hurt the Juggernaut alot, but it'll drop to near useless when you have to deal with those frigates. Maybe you should drop a dieterling on it?

I like your 'take up space' idea with your aegis.
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Post by Master Chief »

Jafo wrote:However, I think Frosch modules are going to play a large role in this tourney. The ability to take power away from deflector shields and leave the enemy ship temporarily vulnerable is going to be key, as the defences otherwise are extremely tough to get past. The Frosch works better against smaller ships than large, and a number of small ships is what I think we are going to be facing.
Thus, I suggest the following on every Military ship:

1. Frosch Guns - at least 1
2. Lancets - just chuck 2, maybe if you want just take 1
3. Either tachyon or beamer spam - both damn effective against PD
4. NO PULSARS - you're gonna fight fast pirate frigates
5. 2 Aegis Deflectors - use them the way which the pirates are using
6. Some Deflectors - cover up the rest of the exposed sections
7. Smart placing of weapons - weapon overlapping allowed, so just squeeze them inside

This should work reasonably well.
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EndlessInfinity
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Post by EndlessInfinity »

shit, must have missed a section. HMMM! *goes to make some edits*

edit: done!

Hmmm, I could trade two of the rails and the plasmas for two lancets, but that kinda limits my damage potential if the tachs get blown off... hmmmm...
You've forgot to set all your section HPs. Also, Rail guns might not be able to do crap against those lame clamshell designs those cheap pirates are using. Wink

I also don't think that Tachs are a great choince against fast ships. You might be able to hurt the Juggernaut alot, but it'll drop to near useless when you have to deal with those frigates. Maybe you should drop a dieterling on it?

I like your 'take up space' idea with your aegis.
true 'nough with the rails. with the tachs, I was thinking that, because the jug is going to be targeted by everyone off the start, and because my tachs will likely be blown off eventually due to splash damage, my ship would be built more with that issue in mind. What do you think I should switch the rails to, then?
[img]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/EndlessInfinity/Endsig.jpg[/img]
antisocialmunky
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Post by antisocialmunky »

Master Chief wrote:
Jafo wrote:However, I think Frosch modules are going to play a large role in this tourney. The ability to take power away from deflector shields and leave the enemy ship temporarily vulnerable is going to be key, as the defences otherwise are extremely tough to get past. The Frosch works better against smaller ships than large, and a number of small ships is what I think we are going to be facing.
Thus, I suggest the following on every Military ship:

1. Frosch Guns - at least 1
2. Lancets - just chuck 2, maybe if you want just take 1
3. Either tachyon or beamer spam - both damn effective against PD
4. NO PULSARS - you're gonna fight fast pirate frigates
5. 2 Aegis Deflectors - use them the way which the pirates are using
6. Some Deflectors - cover up the rest of the exposed sections
7. Smart placing of weapons - weapon overlapping allowed, so just squeeze them inside

This should work reasonably well.
I disagree with the above bold stuff.

Lancets are extremely hit/miss in this situation and they cost a hell of a lot. Lancets either get stuck between the clamshell design in rare cases and pretty much own a ship or more commonly bounce from either friendly or enemy Aegis. Aegis is just a bad situation to employ lancets, mostly because your guys will get in the way. I would

I still say projectile spam is the way to go with missles, blasters, and plaama as thie best alternatives to beam spam. Frosch + Blaster spam= a buttload of frontloaded damage and instadeath if we ever figure out how to guarantee volley fire. Only close beam weapons have the ROF to take advantage of lowered deflectors. Most projectiles fire enough to be able to take advantage of those openings. We should also consider both sidewinders and weasels since its very difficult to deal with frontal Aegis if you can't blow it off outright.

Lastly, I think that Tacs are useless due to range and the speed of our enemy. Speed + Deflectors = tac fail.

@Endless, I'm not sure, play with it. Maybe you'll run into a really cool setup.
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Post by Master Chief »

<REVISED AFTER ASM'S SUGGESTIONS>

Thus, I suggest the following on every Military ship:

1. Frosch Guns - at least 1
2. Some projectile weaponry spam (blasters/weasels are most preferred for long-range, sidewinders for mid-range, gat pulses best at close range for excessive carnage, also maybe a close-range tachyon overloader or two)
3. Some beamer spam (beamers for long-range and mining beams/scatterbeams for short-range - both are more or less equally efficient)
4. NO PULSARS, DRIVERS OR USELESS CRAP - you're gonna fight fast pirate frigates and a Juggernaut
5. 2 Aegis Deflectors - use them the way which the pirates are using
6. Some Deflectors - cover up the rest of the exposed sections
7. Smart placing of weapons - weapon overlapping allowed, so just squeeze them inside

PS...Military guys...just noticed a loophole in the AI and Aegis rules...

Set ship to Broadside AI and any AI range. Remember your Aegis. 130 degrees of shielding to each "side" (more the front) and at least 40 degrees of space to the front and back (more the sides). Bingo! Aegis-abusing ships! :twisted:
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