New tournie rules?

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Salvofire
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New tournie rules?

Post by Salvofire »

So me and some friends decided to do a battleships forever tournament. We tried it before with the old rules but they seemed pretty...messed up somehow. For one it was always more effective to go with a bigger more powerful ship then a smaller quicker one and weapons came in ridiculous quantities.

Thus I decided to make my own rule set based off the old one. These new rules in my opinion do the following things:

1. Promote balanced fleets with different roles.
2. Promote the use of smaller vessels as well as the standard big battleships of death.

So here you go, any comments/balancing suggestions are appreciated.

Code: Select all


Battleships Forever Custom Ship Tournament


1:  Pick the class of your first ship.

Here are the classes and what each one does.


Frigate:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|-- 80 --|- 4.50 -|- 0.25 -|- 1.50 -| 5/sec |

Bonus:
May buy level 4 speed and manuverablity upgrades
Has access to Special weapon section
Half weapon costs

Negatives:
May not buy health upgrades
Max three deflectors


Destroyer:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 200 --|- 3.00 -|- 0.10 -|- 1.00 -| 2/sec |

No special bonus's or negatives.


Cruiser:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 400 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 2/sec |

Bonus:
May buy up to lvl 4 health upgrade
Pay half price for all health upgrades

Negatives:
Pay double price for speed upgrades


Carriers:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 4/sec |

Bonus:
Half price on Demeters and Pod launchers

Minus:
Double cost for all other weapons


Battleships:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 2.25 -|- 0.08 -|- 0.75 -| 3/sec |

Bonus:
Pay half price for all weapons
Can have two weapons per section

Negatives:
Pay double for speed upgrades


Anti Ship Missiles:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 10.0 -|- 2.00 -|- 0.75 -| 10/sec |

Bonus:
None

Negative:
Max of 5 per fleet
No weapons or modules can be put on a missile.



2: Adding Modules and Weapons

Now that you have your class you wish to add to the fleet,
   build it how you like while keeping track of how many sections
   you use.  Add up the total point cost thus far.


Now select the weapons you would like to put on your ship.

***Max of 1 weapon per every section
***Battleship may have 2 weapons for every section
***Max of 4 deflectors on any ship except frigates, they receive 3 max.


Attribute-------|----Cost----| Restrictions
=Projectiles====|============|
Pulse Gun-------|----- 3 ----|
Gatling Pulse---|----- 4 ----|
Blaster Cannon--|----- 6 ----|
Gatling Blaster-|----- 9 ----|
Quad Blaster----|----- 8 ----|
Repeater Gun----|----- 3 ----|
Tachyon Cannon--|----- 6 ----|
Mega Tach|----- 20 ----|
Tachyon Driver--|----- 6 ----|
Plasma Charge---|----- 6 ----|
Missile Launcher|----- 4 ----|
=Beams==========|============|
Mining Beam-----|----- 3 ----|
Scatter Beam----|----- 6 ----|
Beamer----------|----- 7 ----|
Shock Beamer----|----- 7 ----|
Mega Beam-------|----- 8 ----|
=Point=Defense==|============|
Flak Cannon-----|----- 2 ----|
Particle Gun----|----- 4 ----|
Point Beam------|----- 6 ----|
=Misc===========|============|
Demeter Launcher|----- 2 ----|
Demeter Pod Lchr|----- 10 ---| Max 2 for all except carrier Max 4
Weasel Gun------|----- 6 ----|
Pulsar Gun------|----- 6 ----|
Sidewinder------|----- 6 ----|
Railgun---------|----- 7 ----|
=Modules========|============|
Gosling Launcher|----- 8 ----|
Nano Matrix-----|----- 20 ---| Frigate Only
Gravitic Impeder|----- 8 ----| Frigate Only
Platform Faber--|----- 9 ---| Frigate Only
Impeder Faber---|----- 8 ----|
Dieterling Devic|----- 6 ---| Frigate only
Booster---------|----- 8 ----|
Deflector Shield|----- 6 ----|
Teller Torpedo--|----- 8 ----|
Gluon Bolter----|-----8 ----|
Lancet Beam-----|----- 8 ----|
Gravity Beam----|----- 10 ----|
Rorschach-------|----- 15 ----|

Now add up the cost of your sections and weapons so far put on.

3:UPGRADE you ship to your standards. Using this chart
 
*** No one can buy level 4 upgrade unless said in the ship discription
*** Only buy one level, you CAN NOT add 100 hp with first level then buy the next.
HP: 
Level one: add 100 hp to up to four sections 10 pts
Level two: add 200 hp to up to four sections 25 pts
Level three: add 300 hp to up to four sections 40 pts
Level four: add 500 hp to up to four sections 50 pts

Speed:
Level one: add 0.25 speed 10 pts
Level two: add 0.5 speed 25 pts
Level three: add .75 speed 40 pts
Level four: add 1.25 speed 50 pts

Acceleration:
Level one: add 0.02 acceleration 10pts
Level two: add 0.04 acceleration 25 pts
Level two: add 0.06 acceleration 40 pts
Level four: add 0.08 acceleration 50 pts

Turning:
Level one: add 0.15 turning 10 pts
Level two: add 0.25 turning 25 pts
Level three: add 0.45 turning 40 pts
Level four: add 0.60 turning 50 pts 
It has been tested be me and so far seems pretty damn balanced but I'm sure needs more work.

So have at it.
Last edited by Salvofire on Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bad Boy
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Post by Bad Boy »

I don't join in the tournaments, but I'm sure these rules are excellent. Now, to the point of my statement, shouldn't this be in the tournament forum?
Sponge
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Post by Sponge »

First- how many points do you get? I can't find it anywhere.

It's a neat idea, and it's certainly different. However, I have this nagging suspicion that these ship types aren't balanced with each other at all. As in, I could use a battleship to grind through a carrier or even a cruiser with minimal effort. And then I could use a cruiser to grind through a frigate and just about anything will destroy an Anti Ship Missile because their function is to detonate themselves on top of/near another ship. That said, there'd be little reason not to use a fleet consisting entirely of one of the superior classes, like the battleship, thus eliminating the need for a class system to begin with.
Salvofire
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Post by Salvofire »

First off, you get as many points as you want for that particular battle. Me and my friends chose 1000 and that seems like a good number for a decent sized fleet. For instance I have 6 Frigates, 2 battlships and a crusier in my fleet.

Secondly, your correct in a few of those assumptions. For example, the carrier can't take a battleship one on one. It's not meant to do that, it's more of a support class. Each has a defined role. That is the point of the class system. See they could just get all battleships but I guarantee a fleet of frigates will rape the hell out of it. You could take all of one class but each has their weakness as well, thus you would be weak in some aspects while extremely strong in others. I've tweaked and balanced quite a bit so far and although it does need more balancing it is surprisingly fair.


Frigate: Works well to take out the really large classes as well as support like platform deploying and what not.

Destroyer: Not exceptional at anything I've yet to put a finger on what its good at. If you make them cheap though they can easily regain their points.

Carrier: More of a support class that ties up flak. They don't do much damage but if you give them long range support weapons they can help a fleet greatly.

Cruiser: Great for soaking up damage, these guys are great for up in your face action and should probably be the core of any fleet.

Battleship: Pretty much your main combat unit, these guys dish out damage like crazy and can probably take it as well.


Now as for the missiles...well your right, their not too effective but one or two in a fleet might add an edge to rest of your units.


EDIT: Also yes, very sorry but could a mod move this for me? I accidentally put it in here cause this section is bookmarked. :P
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Post by ArcaneDude »

There is an entire subforum for stuff like this, 'n it's not here. Take the hint.

EDIT: You took the hint. Thank you.
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Post by Normandy »

Ah, very interesting rules, but I do have to disagree with some of them.

Why are cruisers stronger than battleships? It should be the other way around
The turning is pretty low
You should be able to buy HP upgrades for more than 4 sections.

Other than that these rules have some potential.
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CmdPrompt
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Re: New tournie rules?

Post by CmdPrompt »

First, you need better formating.

Code: Select all

Battleships Forever Custom Ship Tournament


1:  Pick the class of your first ship.

Here are the classes and what each one does.


Frigate:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|-- 80 --|- 4.50 -|- 0.25 -|- 1.50 -| 5/sec |

Bonus:
May buy level 4 speed and manuverablity upgrades
Has access to Special weapon section
Half weapon costs

Negatives:
May not buy health upgrades
Max three deflectors


Destroyer:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 200 --|- 3.00 -|- 0.10 -|- 1.00 -| 2/sec |

No special bonus's or negatives.


Cruiser:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 400 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 2/sec |

Bonus:
May buy up to lvl 4 health upgrade
Pay half price for all health upgrades

Negatives:
Pay double price for speed upgrades


Carriers:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 2/sec |

Bonus:
4 Demeters and 2 Pods for free

Minus:
Double cost for all weapons


Battleships:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 2.25 -|- 0.08 -|- 0.75 -| 3/sec |

Bonus: 
Pay half price for all weapons
Can have two weapons per section

Negatives: 
Pay double for speed upgrades


Anti Ship Missiles:
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--|
|- 300 --|- 10.0 -|- 2.00 -|- 0.75 -| 10/sec |

Bonus:
None

Negative: 
Max of 5 per fleet
No weapons or modules can be put on a missile.



2: Adding Modules and Weapons

Now that you have your class you wish to add to the fleet, 
   build it how you like while keeping track of how many sections
   you use.  Add up the total point cost thus far.


Now select the weapons you would like to put on your ship.

***Max of 1 weapon per every section
***Battleship may have 2 weapons for every section



Attribute-------|----Cost----| Restrictions
=Projectiles====|============|
Pulse Gun-------|----- 3 ----|
Gatling Pulse---|----- 4 ----|
Blaster Cannon--|----- 6 ----|
Gatling Blaster-|----- 9 ----|
Quad Blaster----|----- 8 ----|
Repeater Gun----|----- 3 ----|
Tachyon Cannon--|----- 6 ----|
Tachyon Repeater|----- 10 ----|
Tachyon Driver--|----- 6 ----|
Plasma Charge---|----- 6 ----|
Missile Launcher|----- 6 ----|
=Beams==========|============|
Mining Beam-----|----- 3 ----|
Scatter Beam----|----- 6 ----|
Beamer----------|----- 7 ----|
Shock Beamer----|----- 7 ----|
Mega Beam-------|----- 8 ----|
=Point=Defense==|============|
Flak Cannon-----|----- 3 ----|
Particle Gun----|----- 6 ----|
Point Beam------|----- 8 ----|
=Misc===========|============|
Demeter Launcher|----- 6 ----|
Demeter Pod Lchr|----- 8 ---|
Weasel Gun------|----- 6 ----|
Pulsar Gun------|----- 6 ----|
Sidewinder------|----- 6 ----|
Railgun---------|----- 7 ----|
=Modules========|============|
Gosling Launcher|----- 8 ----|
Nano Matrix-----|----- 20 ---| Frigate Only
Gravitic Impeder|----- 8 ----| Frigate Only
Platform Faber--|----- 9 ---| Frigate Only
Impeder Faber---|----- 8 ----|
Dieterling Devic|----- 6 ---| Frigate only
Booster---------|----- 8 ----|
Deflector Shield|----- 6 ----| 
Teller Torpedo--|----- 8 ----|
Gluon Bolter----|-----8 ----|
Lancet Beam-----|----- 8 ----|
Gravity Beam----|----- ? ----|
Rorschach-------|----- ? ----|

Now add up the cost of your sections and weapons so far put on.

3:UPGRADE you ship to your standards. Using this chart
  
*** No one can buy level 4 upgrade unless said in the ship discription
*** Only buy one level, you CAN NOT add 100 hp with first level then buy the next.
HP:  
Level one: add 100 hp to up to four sections 20 pts
Level two: add 200 hp to up to four sections 50 pts
Level three: add 300 hp to up to four sections 80 pts
Level four: add 500 hp to up to four sections 100 pts

Speed:
Level one: add 0.25 speed 20 pts
Level two: add 0.5 speed 50 pts
Level three: add .75 speed 80 pts
Level four: add 1.25 speed 100 pts

Acceleration:
Level one: add 0.02 acceleration 20 pts
Level two: add 0.04 acceleration 50 pts
Level two: add 0.06 acceleration 80 pts
Level four: add 0.08 acceleration 100 pts

Turning: 
Level one: add 0.15 turning 20 pts
Level two: add 0.25 turning 50 pts
Level three: add 0.45 turning 80 pts
Level four: add 0.60 turning 100 pts
Second, balance issues:

Code: Select all

Demeter Launcher|----- 6 ----|
Demeter Pod Lchr|----- 8 ---|
Demeters launch one pod at a time. Pod Launchers launch 6. This pricing is ridiculous.

Much along those lines, the Carrier class is completely overpowered. Here is how you would win a 1000 point tournament: build 83 Carriers. Each one comes with 4 Demeters and 2 Pods, meaning you only have to build the sections to support them. So, each Carrier costs 12 points, and theres no real need to put anything more on them except for that, so you're good.

Demeter Pod Launchers are incredibly good, and I would recommend just banning them if you're going to use points in excess of 100.

Limit the number of deflectors you can have on a ship.

Code: Select all

Flak Cannon-----|----- 3 ----|
Particle Gun----|----- 6 ----|
Point Beam------|----- 8 ----| 
This pricing is pretty disparate, I would say 3/4/6 or something.

Gravitic Impeders being Frigate Only makes no sense.

The HP, Speed, etc. levels are incredibly overpriced. There is no reason to buy a level if you can just build a new ship.

1 weapon per section is very restrictive.

Missile Launchers seem overpriced at 6.
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Post by DarkenShroud »

I'm gonna have to second Cmd Prompts observations. He makes many good points, and is very accurate on his suggestions. I would definetly take his advice, and am in full agreement.
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Post by Salvofire »

Thanks for the feed back. I'll see what I can do about tweaking those weapon costs you mentioned. I don't really see how demeters are that great at all though, for me it always seemed like they did little to nothing.

Thanks though for the carrier point, I don't know how I missed that blaring mistake. How would you do the carrier system? I can't really think of anything easy. Any suggestions would be great.

About deflectors, forgot to include that. The max for deflectors is 4 per ship but only 3 are allowed on a frigate.

About the Gravitic Impeders, I kind of wanted frigates as the utility class so it made sense to me to have things like Gravitic Impeders on them.

Finally 1 weapon per section is indeed restrictive, thats the point. So you can't have a god damn brick with weapons on it. I wanted strategy to be a major part of these rules.

However you make good points, I'll try and rectify what I can soon.
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Post by CmdPrompt »

Free weapons are a bad idea for the reason I listed, but price discounts for demeters on a carrier would make sense.

Regarding the other stuff, I'm just going to try and keep my commenting on balance issues, I don't want to stop people from doing what they want.

I agree that the Demeter Launchers aren't all that great, but Demeter Pod Launchers are insane, especially in the area of 4+. Try just loading a ship with 6 Pod Launchers and seeing how it fares against other ships built on your system. They're able to take out the core of a ship very quickly.
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Post by Salvofire »

Thanks for the feedback guys. I made the changes suggested plus increased the price of the mega tach, as is was wayyy to cheap, it rips ships apart like no other.

To remedy the carrier situation, got rid of free weapons and increased section cost.

So keep going guys, how can I make it better?
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Post by warhammer158 »

I mde afew changes,but knowing me they are probibaly for the worse, oh well. These rules worked for a torny i did so well done to the origionals. :wink:

Code: Select all

Battleships Forever Custom Ship Tournament 
each ship after the first cost 100 points

1:  Pick the class of your first ship. 

Here are the classes and what each one does. 


Frigate: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|-- 80 --|- 4.50 -|- 0.25 -|- 1.50 -| 5/sec | 

Bonus: 
May buy level 4 speed and manuverablity upgrades 
Has access to Special weapon section 
Half weapon costs 

Negatives: 
May not buy health upgrades 
Max three deflectors 


Destroyer: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|- 200 --|- 3.00 -|- 0.10 -|- 1.00 -| 2/sec | 

No special bonus's or negatives. 


Cruiser: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|- 400 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 2/sec | 

Bonus: 
May buy up to lvl 4 health upgrade 
Pay half price for all health upgrades 

Negatives: 
Pay double price for speed upgrades 


Carriers: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|- 300 --|- 1.00 -|- 0.05 -|- 0.60 -| 2/sec | 

Bonus: 
4 Demeters and 2 Pods for free 

Minus: 
Double cost for all weapons 
Except Demeter’s


Battleships: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|- 300 --|- 2.25 -|- 0.08 -|- 0.75 -| 3/sec | 

Bonus: 
Pay half price for all weapons 
Can have two weapons per section 

Negatives: 
Pay double for speed upgrades 


Anti Ship Missiles: 
|-- HP --|-Speed--|-Accel--|--Turn--|--Sec--| 
|- 300 --|- 10.0 -|- 2.00 -|- 0.75 -| 10/sec | 

Bonus: 
None 

Negative: 
Max of 5 per fleet 
No weapons or modules can be put on a missile. 



2: Adding Modules and Weapons 

Now that you have your class you wish to add to the fleet, 
   build it how you like while keeping track of how many sections 
   you use.  Add up the total point cost thus far. 


Now select the weapons you would like to put on your ship. 

***Max of 1 weapon per every section 
***Battleship may have 2 weapons for every section 
**** May not exeed 4 on each ship


Attribute-------|----Cost----| Restrictions 
=Projectiles====|============| 
Pulse Gun-------|----- 4 ----| 
Gatling Pulse---|----- 4 ----| 
Blaster Cannon--|----- 6 ----| 
Gatling Blaster-|----- 10 ----| 
Quad Blaster----|----- 8 ----| 
Repeater Gun----|----- 4 ----| 
Tachyon Cannon--|----- 6 ----| 
Tachyon Repeater|----- 20 ----|**** 
Tachyon Driver--|----- 6 ----| 
Plasma Charge---|----- 6 ----| 
Missile Launcher|----- 6 ----| 
=Beams==========|============| 
Mining Beam-----|----- 4 ----| 
Scatter Beam----|----- 6 ----| 
Beamer----------|----- 8 ----| 
Shock Beamer----|----- 8 ----| 
Mega Beam-------|----- 16 ----| ****
=Point=Defense==|============| 
Flak Cannon-----|----- 4 ----| 
Particle Gun----|----- 6 ----| 
Point Beam------|----- 8 ----| 
=Misc===========|============| 
Demeter Launcher|----- 6 ----| 
Demeter Pod Lchr|----- 20 ---| ****
Weasel Gun------|----- 6 ----| 
Pulsar Gun------|----- 6 ----| 
Sidewinder------|----- 6 ----| 
Railgun---------|----- 6 ----| 
=Modules========|============| 
Gosling Launcher|----- 8 ----|**** 
Nano Matrix-----|----- 20 ---| Frigate Only ****
Gravitic Impeder|----- 8 ----| Frigate Only ****
Platform Faber--|----- 8 ---| Frigate Only ****
Impeder Faber---|----- 8 ----| ****
Dieterling Devic|----- 6 ---| Frigate only ****
Booster---------|----- 8 ----| 
Deflector Shield|----- 6 ----| ****
Teller Torpedo--|----- 8 ----| ****
Gluon Bolter----|----- 8 ----| ****
Lancet Beam-----|----- 8 ----| ****
Gravity Beam----|----- 8 ----| ****
Rorschach-------|----- 16 ----|****
Aegis-----------|----- 24 ----|****
Frosh-----------|----- 250 ----| limited to 1, Frigate only.
					
Now add up the cost of your sections and weapons so far put on. 
 
3: UPGRADE you ship to your standards. Using this chart 
  
*** No one can buy level 4 upgrade unless said in the ship description 
*** Only buy one level, you CAN NOT add 100 hp with first level then buy the next. 
HP:  
Level one: add 100 hp to centre sections 20 pts 
Level two: add 200 hp to centre sections 25 pts 
Level three: add 300 hp to centre sections 40 pts 
Level four: add 500 hp to centre sections 100 pts 

Speed: 
Level one: add 0.25 speed 10 pts 
Level two: add 0.5 speed 25 pts 
Level three: add .75 speed 40 pts 
Level four: add 1.25 speed 80 pts 

Acceleration: 
Level one: add 0.02 acceleration 10 pts 
Level two: add 0.04 acceleration 25 pts 
Level three: add 0.06 acceleration 40 pts 
Level four: add 0.08 acceleration 80 pts 

Turning: 
Level one: add 0.15 turning 10 pts 
Level two: add 0.25 turning 25 pts 
Level three: add 0.45 turning 40 pts 
Level four: add 0.60 turning 80 pts
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Post by Himura.Kenshin »

Umm, ok?

That's one screwed up tournament... It looks like half the rules are missing =\.
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Post by warhammer158 »

it is just an eddited version of the first one posted in this topic
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Post by Zancloufer »

Code: Select all

Nano Matrix-----|----- 20 ---| Frigate Only ****
Gravitic Impeder|----- 8 ----| Frigate Only ****
Platform Faber--|----- 8 ---| Frigate Only **** 
That makes no sense tbh.
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