Assault the Mothership 2: Electric Boogaloo![Closed]

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:31 pm

Indeed, I usually think its better to buff turn rate and kill my archs to around 15 degrees.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:53 pm

All weapons must use their original arc. That is, weapons may no longer be expanded to 180 degrees in this tournament. No attributes may be changed for weapons or modules.

Very nice test Mothership, thanx Wizard.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:42 am

How illegal is this?

The sections each cover 90 degrees. There's a 11 degree gap and the Aegis Section doesn't cover the whole ship from the front. Nor the right side(modified it by stretching a the left side 26 three times.) And about 30% of the ship's costs are adjacent to the Aegis sections.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:48 am

Illegal I believe, the bottom section 26 is covering 90 degrees or more from the ships core. Use a smaller section on the bottm and it will be legal.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:50 am

I zoomed in and used the corner of a piece of paper to measure it. Perhaps you just missed the Core, its by the Nano.

Rather here it from Endless though.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:52 am

He'll probably still disallow it, considering my one ship was legal and he said no lol. If he says no, just use a smaller section on the bottm stretched.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:56 am

Playing with Aegis is so hard *cry*.

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:05 am

DarkenShroud wrote:He'll probably still disallow it, considering my one ship was legal and he said no lol. If he says no, just use a smaller section on the bottm stretched.

Can't stretch Aegis sections.

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:07 am

Meh, jsut replace it with something smaller.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:07 am

*nods*

Then use as long a section as possible.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:58 am

Mr_Wizard wrote:Here is what I see in the Mothership, nearest I can tell: http://www.mediafire.com/?8kxyxt2yyid

It probably is a little bigger than the real mothership in the center there. I guessed with a few modules and what is hidden by the scaffolding. It beats Team Beta from the last tournament, so it passes the test "is it harder than the last mothership" I didnt keep track of points either.

Thanks for making a test Mothership to go against! This effort always makes testing so much better and makes for more effective designs!

First, what I think is a flaw in design that I don't see EndlessInfinity leaving in. The front centre Aegis section gets blown off regularly (1:30 - 2:00 minutes) if the ships in front are using beam weapons. The beams bypass the sides of the Aegis and hit the sections with railguns, resulting in the railguns and Aegis sections getting blown off. My suggestion is to replace the current Aegis sections with sections that are less eye-pleasing and blockier that would attract the beams users to target the Aegis sections.

A FYI for everybody. Based on running tests against 10 different ships the Flanking AI Mothership is very much less effective than the Normal AI Mothership. It varies (of course) from ship to ship, but the Flanking AI version is anywhere from 25% - 100% less effective (Mothership takes that much shorter time to die, or to destroy the 8 ships it is facing). This was consistent across all 10 test ships, only the percentage difference changed.

And finally, based on the first Mothership and its "MegaTachyon farm" effectivesness, I don't think you have enough Tachyon cannons on the front of the arms (personal opinion only) . If I were EndlessInfinity and this were my design, I would increase the number of Tachyon Cannons on each arm by 3 or 4. Since the outside of the arms are covered by scaffolding so that we can't see what is there, we have no way of knowing what may be there. I just think adding a few more Tachyon Cannons would make this a far deadlier test (and possibly more accurate) than it already is, and is along the design philosophy of the first Mothership.

EndlessInfinity · Post by **EndlessInfinity** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:47 am

Hey, sorry, between traveling back home for reading break and getting myself humerously drunk for the past couple days, I haven't had a chance to check the page.

anti: unfortunately, I don't have a comp with BSF for tonight, but the way I'm going to test is I'm going to create a weapon directly on the blue dot of the core, set it's angles to 90 and then swivel it around. So long as it can do a loop without an aegis section completely in this angle, then it's okay. If you can do this and it's okay, then I have no problem. If you can do a screencap proving it's fine, then even better, but for the most part, I'm willing to trust your estimations until the due date.

And darken, I've been extremely leniant thus far. The rules pretty planely state that aegis can't completely block one side, but I'm willing to let what I okayed slide because you made it sufficiently vulnerable. I don't mean to disrespect, but you've been trying throughout this tournament to find loopholes, and I don't appreciate being made out as the bad-guy for trying to make sure things stay within the bounds I set. I've put a ton of effort into making a ship that can be beat by a team following the rules, and I've watched it repeatedly suffer problems against ships with an aegis section completely blocking the front.

Meh, my appologies in advance if I'm out of line on this - I'll admit I've had a bit to drink so I could be taking things completely the wrong way, but whatever. It's my tourney, and I know the best what my design is capable. I'm not going to cheat you all, but I'm not going to give you an unfair advantage either.

my ranting/flaming aside, anti, your ship looks good but I will agree that it is a little close, just judging by my eye.

ugh, enough of that shit - I'm looking forward to taking this test mothership for a spin and seeing how close you guys are

. And on that note, I've been talking to cmdpromt, and there is a possibility of him supplying you guys with a video!

So, 10 million awesome points to him.

Time for more wine!

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:29 am

I don't mean to disrespect, but you've been trying throughout this tournament to find loopholes, and I don't appreciate being made out as the bad-guy for trying to make sure things stay within the bounds I set

Isn't that what every good tourney player does, find the loopholes to make the most effective ship possible within the rules. Your doing a good job, and I have no problems with your judging. Just saying your a tough and fair judge, and you make the final call. Didn't mean any disrespect towards ya, sorry you took it that way. I will continue to find loopholes/effective ideas that are within the rules. I think thats the mark of a good player who wants to do the best he can, find something thats overpowered within the rules and run with it. I call that an effective idea, where you call that a loophole. Everyone has there own opinons though, and I do respect yours. Again loopholes are the samething as a effective idea, use the rules to there full advantage. Thats not what I consider shady or wrong, if I can find a way to manipulate the rules to our favor, then you should be applauding me for giving the teams a better shot against your big Mother. Again no disrespect, I like the way you judge and are running things.

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:58 am

Well, you don't have to be so focused on sneakyness and loophole finding. Perhaps you should instead find creative ways to work with the rules to maximum benifit? Find a new way to make it more effective, instead of just pushing a normal ship as close as you can to being illegal. Experiment with legal designs that make MegaTachs useless, instead of just hiding behind a half-legal Aegis. Tournaments should promote creativity, not loophole finding and sneakyness.

But EndlessInfinity still has a point, you have been complaining about what is/isn't legal, how he isn't allowing your ship, and how your ship is just barely legal. Plus encouraging others to do the same.

DarkenShroud · Post by **DarkenShroud** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:23 pm

Well, you don't have to be so focused on sneakyness and loophole finding. Perhaps you should instead find creative ways to work with the rules to maximum benifit? Find a new way to make it more effective, instead of just pushing a normal ship as close as you can to being illegal. Experiment with legal designs that make MegaTachs useless, instead of just hiding behind a half-legal Aegis. Tournaments should promote creativity, not loophole finding and sneakyness.

But EndlessInfinity still has a point, you have been complaining about what is/isn't legal, how he isn't allowing your ship, and how your ship is just barely legal. Plus encouraging others to do the same.
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1. What you call focusing on loopholes and sneakyness, I call testing what is legal and what is not. I am not complaining at all about the judging, and I do fully agree with how Endless has judged. I'm not as good as others at making shells for ships, so I try other methods of staying away and avoiding fire. Endless is a good and tough judge, which I enjoy throughly. There is no negative emotions on my side of things, and there will not be ever.

2. I think I have been very creative, and have submitted a ton ideas for all the teams to use as a basis. I do not purposely look for ways to bend the rules, my ideas just seem to go there I suppose. I try my best to make shady/effective ideas, thats just the way I build.

3. I am only trying to find out what is legit and not legit, and testing the rules system to show everyone what is ok and not ok. Please stop taking it as a bad thing cuz its not meant to be.

4. Sorry for putting out the wrong impression if I have, if my building seems to be focused on making the most effective design within the rules I can, then I do apologise. I'm just trying to do the best I can, with the rules I have to work with.

5. There is no disrespect coming from me, nor ill will towards anyone at all. If something is not allowed, then so be it. I will continue to test the boundries so people will know what they are, and I will as well. I do not mean to do such, it just happens with my builds I guess. I do not make a ship saying how shady can I make this thing. I just write it down and it comes out shady.....which is the samething as effective in my book. I mean the Mothership is going to be shady/effective, why can't we be lol.

6. Last time, I am not mad nor upset about anything that has been denied by endless. Nor have I had any complaints, just simple feedback and testing whats legit and whats not. Quit putting so much into this, its not wrong to test whats ok and whats not to make a strong ship design. Others ask if there builds are illegal, why can't I? If there said to be illegal, then I will find ways to make them legal. That is not wrong, thats what you are supposed to do when making your ship.

7. Suggesting a way to make a illegal build legal is a good thing, encouraging is the wrong word. I am simply trying to give others ideas, which is what Endless wanted us to do in the first place. I encourage people to make the best designs they can within the rules, if there builds are named illegal, then I will help them find ways to make them legal. That to me is a positive thing.

Natch's ship is about the most shady thing out there submitted by anyone, I applaud his efforts. I am just doing the samething, trying to find as effective a ship possible using the rules and testing whats ok and whats not.

I've been talking to cmdpromt, and there is a possibility of him supplying you guys with a video! So, 10 million awesome points to him.

Time for more wine!

THREE CHEERS FOR CMD PROMPT, AND A BOTTLE OF VODKA ON ME FOR ENDLESS