Assault the Mothership 2 - Team Alpha

Various custom ship tournaments go here, along with old encounters.

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Droid
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Post by Droid »

Another day, another design.
This one is rather similar to the Aeterna in that it has the same aegis layout, but I re-did the hull and re-did the armament so that it is a faster and carries a 16 beamers :D.
The second design is a distraction unit. It is meant to circle the mothership and use its drivers to eat up the incoming projectiles, not to deal significant DPS. It should also serve to distract PD, not that that's really needed with so many pulsar-boats. It carries 12 Tachyon Drivers and has a much increased movement stats so it can actually move properly.

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Post by Jafo »

Droid wrote:Another day, another design.
This one is rather similar to the Aeterna in that it has the same aegis layout, but I re-did the hull and re-did the armament so that it is a faster and carries a 16 beamers :D.
The second design is a distraction unit. It is meant to circle the mothership and use its drivers to eat up the incoming projectiles, not to deal significant DPS. It should also serve to distract PD, not that that's really needed with so many pulsar-boats. It carries 12 Tachyon Drivers and has a much increased movement stats so it can actually move properly.
Nice! More ships to try out.

The Tachyon Driver ship doesn't really do much for the team. As you noted, we have an abundance of PD distractors already, and the weapon combined with the way the fleet causes the Mothership to move around only hits about 10% of the time, and that is when the Mothership has no weapons/modules left. Its a good solid design that I expect would do well as a fleet of 8 on its own against the Mothership (as long as some shots could get through the PD to start the damage process). Impressive damage when it does hit.

The Beamer version doesn't last long enough to do any significant damage (if any damage at all). It is always the third ship to die and always early on in the encounter.

The Aeterna normally lasts all the way through the fight and contributes to the Mothership destruction (all phases of the encounter). In their current configurations, I would recommend sticking with the Aeterna.

However, I think this new Beamer ship of yours could be a significant factor and much better than the Aeterna for a team fit with 2 simple changes. Change the AI from Normal to Flanking, & bump the AI Range up to the 500-600 range.

I was going to post about how our fleet works together in beating the Mothership (very, very regular beating :D ), but I am going to wait a bit and see if you want to supply a ship with something along the changes I just suggested.
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Post by Jafo »

While running encounters to see how our fleet fits together, I saw a role that my ship was more or less fulfilling. I felt that the role was important, so I have adjusted my ship to fulfill that role better. So here is my current ship-of-the-day (can't let Droid have all the fun of tossing new designs in :P).
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Citrus Peeler PB2x download link

2 Lancets, 2 Deflector Shields, 7 Point Beams and a Nano Matrix. (all will be explained after giving Droid a chance to decide if he wants to make my suggested changes to his beamer ship)
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Post by Droid »

Somehow, the AI range failed to save properly on the Witch-Maw Nephilim (look at the screenshot - it's supposed to be at 550).

I've changed the AI to Flanking and raised the range to 600.

I might have to reduce the firing arc on its beamers...
But anyhow:
Fixed
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Post by Jafo »

Droid wrote:Somehow, the AI range failed to save properly on the Witch-Maw Nephilim (look at the screenshot - it's supposed to be at 550).

I've changed the AI to Flanking and raised the range to 600.

I might have to reduce the firing arc on its beamers...
But anyhow:
Fixed
Ohh, yeah. That performed nicely with the rest of the team. Parts of the Mothership were getting blown off earlier than normal! Sweet.

I am going to put together my thoughts on our fleet and how they behave together and post that here, and make available the encounter files that I am using so that anybody who is interested can see the ship dynamics of our fleet in action. I will post that later.
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Post by Jafo »

The ships that I am using for the encounter testing are :

Antisocialmunky – CuddleFish (pending official approval)
Colonel_Sanders - Turtle Mk 2
Droid – Witch-Maw Nephilim
Tsakara - Sogeki Hei Mk2
QwiceNitely – Jormungand MK 1.3
Jafo - Citrus Peeler PB2x
Master Chief - Aphelion Mk VI
Commodore111 - Marble of DOOM

I am testing against the real Mothership from the first tourney, and the three incarnations of the test Mothership for this tourney ( Normal AI, Flanking AI, & Dieterling ).

First, a bit about how the game seems to work (based on observation) as this important in understanding how our team works together. The game seems to rate opponents as to how dangerous they initially appear to be. So if three ships are approaching in order of A, B, then C, and the danger rating is C > B > A the following occurs. Ship A enters range first and the ship focuses on A. When/if B’s range is ever closer than A’s, the ship focuses on B. Ship A will no longer become a focus for facing or pursuit while B is alive. Point Defence still works against A, and weapons that don’t have B in its arc will fire at A. When C comes into closer range it becomes the focus. The ship will never switch over to A or B while C lives. Both ships A & B can be touching the ship and it will never move away from them or turn towards them.

Our fleet attention factor according to the game.

Turtle > Jormungand > Aphelion/Sogeki Hei > CuddleFish > Witch > Citrus > Marble (don’t know which of Aphelion & Sogeki is preferred to be targeted first, so listed together)

One other point. No single ship of ours can stand up to the Mothership in a toe-to-toe bout for any length of time. It applies to the ships that use speed as a defence when they get stuck along a sandbox wall boundary or in a corner. Some just die somewhat faster than others. Also, due to game randomness and lucky shots, any ship can have a catastrophe happen at any moment and change the normal expected flow of the battle. I feel I have run enough simulated encounters that I have probably seen most variations of disasters that our fleet can encounter.

The Mothership Dieterling variation more or less follows the same pattern as the other Motherships but due to the randomness of the jumps (they are designed to not be 100% accurate jumps in the game) the outcome can be a little different at the end when it dies (exactly who is alive does vary).

A staggered starting position is critical to avoid a scenario that can (not always and not even often) lead to a loss for our team. That will be covered as a point later once the team flow against a Mothership is better understood.

The encounter begins. The flankers start to slip around the sides of the Mothership while the in-your-face ships come barreling straight in.

Turtle is deemed most dangerous and the Mothership always goes after it first. Jormungand & Turtle group together in front of the Mothership and go toe-to-toe with it. They hold it in place while CuddleFish & Citrus Peeler (the two fastest ships) slip to the back and start sniping with Lancets. If the Mothership is using Normal AI, normally a few Lancets shots are good for damage, against the Mothership using Flanking AI it is harder to get right behind due to its movement. Marble of Doom sits behind Turtle & Jormungand. Sogeki Hei, Witch-Maw Nephilim & Aphelion circle out to the sides and only Lancets and Beams are reaching the Mothership but most are hitting the shields. Projectile weapons are all being intercepted by PD. Lancets are starting to do their critical damage (we don’t win due to destroying the Mothership outright, we win due to Lancet sniping weapons/modules to the point where we can destroy the Mothership).

Turtle dies. Mothership either turns on Jormungand immediately or briefly turns on Cuddlefish for a couple of laps before turning on Jormungand. Jormungand dies. Even though Turtle & Jormungand have died fairly quickly, they have helped by holding the Mothership’s attention while the other ships have been working on de-toothing the Mothership via Lancets. At this point in time little or no hull damage has been done to the Mothership, a few weapons and modules have been Lancet’d off.

Mothership turns on CuddleFish and the endless dance begins. CuddleFish has enough speed to dodge slower weapon shots and the Aegis and PD takes care of the rest. It self heals due to Nano Matrix. Citrus Peeler is either directly behind the Mothership or constantly out to one side pursuing. The Mothership, Cuddlefish & Citrus Peeler take up fairly static positions and circle around forever. Witch-Maw Nephilim, Sogeki Hei, Aphelion & Marble of Doom stay outside the circle and fire inwards. Very few weapons are actually reaching the Mothership with the exceptions being Marble’s & Witch’s beams and everybody’s Lancets. The critical damage being done at this stage is all due to Lancets. Eventually the PD and shields are being sniped off, more shots are getting through and hitting hull rather than shields, and the final destruction begins with the last weapons/modules being removed and significant hull damage being done. Mothership dies.

Variations :

Occasionally, Sogeki Hei , Aphelion, or Witch-Maw Nephilim get too close, and the Mothership switchs attention to them from CuddleFish. Whichever ship make this mistake dies and the Mothership goes after CuddleFish again. Marble of Doom seems to be deemed to be the ship that is least dangerous by the game – not my opinion, just the game’s, but it does mean that Marble can get quite close and gets generally ignored so it almost always survives to the end.

Very occasionally, CuddleFish dies due to bad luck or boundary/wall pinned death. Mothership switches to Citrus Peeler which is faster than CuddleFish and outruns all but Demeters (PD/Nano Matrix handles those). Circle made by Mothership and Citrus Peeler is larger, so a larger chance that a different ship could attract the Mothership’s attention and die before switching back to Citrus Peeler.

Staggered start positions is critical due to this scenario. If CuddleFish and Citrus Peeler (the two bait ships) get too far ahead of the rest of the team during the initial encounter, it does happen that they can lead the Mothership towards a wall or corner with the rest of the team trying to catch up (doesn’t always happen but this is almost the only way that we fail to destroy the Mothership). The Mothership pins them against the wall or in the corner and without their speed advantage and maneuverability they die. Once they are dead the Mothership turns on the rest of the team and they all die one by one.

Here are the Encounter files, for those unfamiliar, you don't have to download the ships to watch these, just "play" these encounters. No further interaction required other than to follow the action. Encounter files for Team Alpha vs. various Motherships
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Post by Droid »

Hmmm, seeing how taking off weapons/shields is the way we win...I have a few revised designs:

1 and 2 are tachyon boats (with or without lancets). Not using Megatachs due to the difficulty of fitting such weapons on the ship. lol.
3 is simply a revised With-Maw Nephilim with Lancets.


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Post by Master Chief »

You have my humblest thanks, Jafo, for testing our ships and writing that reply. :shock:

Thank you.
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Post by EndlessInfinity »

Jafo - delightful! I can't wait to see how it fares verses the real thing.
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Post by Master Chief »

EndlessInfinity wrote:Jafo - delightful! I can't wait to see how it fares verses the real thing.
Actually, I guess all of us already know the results... :twisted:
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Post by antisocialmunky »

Do we really need 2 bait frigates? :D
Don’t worry it has airbags.
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Post by Droid »

Yes, just in case one dies :P

EDIT: From looking at the results, it seems that the mothership picks its victims due to size. Not size of the ship, but size of the selection circle. It's explained by the fact that Turtle is huge, while Marble of DOOM is teensy.

That noted, perhaps try adding a long, protruding ablative stick on the bait ships to make sure they're the Mothership's preferred targets XD. See if that makes a difference.
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Post by Jafo »

Droid wrote:EDIT: From looking at the results, it seems that the mothership picks its victims due to size. Not size of the ship, but size of the selection circle. It's explained by the fact that Turtle is huge, while Marble of DOOM is teensy.

That noted, perhaps try adding a long, protruding ablative stick on the bait ships to make sure they're the Mothership's preferred targets XD. See if that makes a difference.
Good observation Droid. TH15 has confirmed in a different thread that the circle around the ship is the threat determination factor (and no, you didn't miss the post, he made it after you posted this). It doesn't look like the threat factor changes due a size change during battle. I have seen the Mothership stay locked onto the remaining core of Turtle even though other (now larger) ships are closer. I already have an ablative section at the back that is currently minimized and tucked in to protect the back of the core. Might have to try this to see if Citrus can be a better bait ship. Haven't had a chance to do more than take a quick look at your latest ships Droid, but there looks to be some very good designs in there, looking forward to getting enough time to check them out.
antisocialmunky wrote:Do we really need 2 bait frigates?
Yes, because we want to win all the time, not just the times that CuddleFish remains alive. :D
EndlessInfinity wrote:Jafo - delightful! I can't wait to see how it fares verses the real thing.
Thank you. I am looking forward to seeing how well we do also!
Master Chief wrote:You have my humblest thanks, Jafo, for testing our ships and writing that reply. Shocked

Thank you.
You're welcome. I wanted for everybody on the team to get a feel for how our ships work together and how we are beating the test Motherships.
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Post by antisocialmunky »

Jafo wrote:
Droid wrote:EDIT: From looking at the results, it seems that the mothership picks its victims due to size. Not size of the ship, but size of the selection circle. It's explained by the fact that Turtle is huge, while Marble of DOOM is teensy.

That noted, perhaps try adding a long, protruding ablative stick on the bait ships to make sure they're the Mothership's preferred targets XD. See if that makes a difference.
Good observation Droid. TH15 has confirmed in a different thread that the circle around the ship is the threat determination factor (and no, you didn't miss the post, he made it after you posted this). It doesn't look like the threat factor changes due a size change during battle. I have seen the Mothership stay locked onto the remaining core of Turtle even though other (now larger) ships are closer. I already have an ablative section at the back that is currently minimized and tucked in to protect the back of the core. Might have to try this to see if Citrus can be a better bait ship. Haven't had a chance to do more than take a quick look at your latest ships Droid, but there looks to be some very good designs in there, looking forward to getting enough time to check them out.
antisocialmunky wrote:Do we really need 2 bait frigates?
Yes, because we want to win all the time, not just the times that CuddleFish remains alive. :D
EndlessInfinity wrote:Jafo - delightful! I can't wait to see how it fares verses the real thing.
Thank you. I am looking forward to seeing how well we do also!
Master Chief wrote:You have my humblest thanks, Jafo, for testing our ships and writing that reply. Shocked

Thank you.
Once again, thanks for the observation.
You're welcome. I wanted for everybody on the team to get a feel for how our ships work together and how we are beating the test Motherships.
Thanks for hte observation, I was trying to figure out how that worked.

I don't think I can make cuddle fish much fatter and protect the 90 degrees of the front so I don't get weaseled to death. :-\
Don’t worry it has airbags.
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Post by Jafo »

Bwaahaahaahaa! Changing your initial ship circle size works for threat determination. This ship gets targeted before CuddleFish now, and only Turtle, Jormungand & Sogeki get more attention.

However, for our fleet, this does not work out well and CuddleFish should stay the primary 'bait' ship. If Citrus is the primary bait ship, it is too fast (and no I am not going to slow down and get destroyed) and it manages to move outside of the Beamers firing arcs. As we swing around in circles the Mothership sees other ships, and while it will not refocus on them and actually chase them, it does fire the weapons whose arcs are not on the Citrus at those other ships. Net result is that we end up with more ships destroyed or damaged due to those Mothership fly-by shootings (we still win every time, just more dangerous due to ships being damaged and lost). Another point but not as significant, Citrus uses Deflector Shields which do have to recharge and CuddleFish uses Aegis Shields. Beams have no effect on CuddleFish where Citrus does sometimes take some damage.

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