One Up Battle

[Mr_Wizard]

Its understandable. The rules changed a bit from the AtM match, so some confusion probably arose from that. My first designs for the AtM I have found are also over the limits in some cases to.

Check out the Manyara's great grandaddy, the Cad Gwaladr Though the overbudgetness has been fixed since then, its still very inferior to the final design.

[TrashMan]

Some of the rules have indeed changed.

IIRC; no fabricators are allowed, and no single deflectored section covering the whole front.
Taking one big piece, putting it in front, buffing it and protecting it with one deflector is cheap. One should pay more for good defense.

[DarkenShroud]

The third custom ships tournament will be a fleet tournament. Trust me, they are much more fun than 1 v 1s.
This thread covers voting for ideas brought up in the ideas thread.

Based on the results of this thread and the previous one, I've updated the rules. Please read and discuss, particularly the point values.

Code:

Base rules

First step:
-Choose a ship class.
Battleship: Slow, but large and strong
Cruiser: The middle-ground between frigate and battleship
Frigate: Small and fragile, but agile

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Your ship starts off with these stats
Base Stats-|--Battleship---|----Cruiser----|----Frigate----|
Core HP |----- 500 -----|----- 400 -----|----- 300 -----| (Appears as Base HP)
Section HP |----- 200 -----|----- 150 -----|----- 100 -----| (Set every section to this HP)
Max Speed |------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|
Accelerate |------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|
Turning |------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|------ 0 ------|

For every point you spend, add this much to those stats
Add Stats--|--Battleship---|----Cruiser----|----Frigate----|
Core HP Add|----- 50 ------|----- 25 ------|----- 10 ------|
Sec. HP Add|----- 250 -----|----- 200 -----|----- 150 -----| (On one section, not all of them)
Max Speed |----- 0.10 ----|----- 0.15 ----|----- 0.20 ----|
Accelerate |----- 0.01 ----|----- 0.02 ----|----- 0.05 ----|
Turning |----- 0.08 ----|----- 0.14 ----|----- 0.20 ----|

How much adding a section costs (Read / as for)
Sections--|--Battleship---|----Cruiser----|----Frigate----|
Cost------|-- 1 point/2 --|-- 1 point/1 --|-- 2 points/1 -|


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Weapons and Modules

Attribute-------|----Cost----|
=Projectiles====|============|
Pulse Gun-------|----- 1 ----|
Gatling Pulse---|----- 2 ----|
Blaster Cannon--|----- 2 ----|
Gatling Blaster-|----- 3 ----|
Quad Blaster----|----- 3 ----|
Repeater Gun----|----- 1 ----|
Tachyon Cannon--|----- 4 ----|
Tachyon Repeater|----- 8 ----|
Tachyon Driver--|----- 4 ----|
Plasma Charge---|----- 3 ----|
Missile Launcher|----- 1 ----|
=Beams==========|============|
Mining Beam-----|----- 1 ----|
Scatter Beam----|----- 2 ----|
Beamer----------|----- 3 ----|
Shock Beamer----|----- 3 ----|
Mega Beam-------|----- 4 ----|
=Point=Defense==|============|
Flak Cannon-----|----- 2 ----|
Particle Gun----|----- 2 ----|
Point Beam------|----- 2 ----|
=Misc===========|============|
Demeter Launcher|----- 2 ----|
Demeter Pod Lchr|----- 12 ---| 2
Weasel Gun------|----- 3 ----|
Pulsar Gun------|----- 4 ----|
Sidewinder------|----- 2 ----|
Railgun---------|----- 4 ----|
=Modules========|============|
Gosling Launcher|----- 3 ----|
Nano Matrix-----|----- 15 ---| 1
Gravitic Impeder|----- 6 ----|
Platform Faber--|Restricted for balance reasons
Impeder Faber---|----- 6 ----|
Dieterling Devic|----- 15 ---|
Flux Projector--| Restricted for AI reasons
Booster---------|----- 5 ----| 2
Aegis Deflector-| Restricted for balance reasons
Deflector Shield|----- 4 ----| 1 per 3 sections
Teller Torpedo--|----- 2 ----|
Gluon Bolter----|----- 3 ----|
Lancet Beam-----|----- 6 ----| 2
Frosch Gun------|----- 15 ---| 1
Gravity Beam----|----- 5 ----|
Rorschach-------|----- 6 ----|

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AI:
-Any AI and range may be chosen.

The Core:
-May be covered by other sections.
-Weapons or modules cannot be connected off the core.
-Cannot be small, civilian, or defense platform core.

Shields:
-Aegis shields are banned
-Deflector shields are allowed, but restricted to 1 Deflector Shield per 3 sections

Sections:
-Sections may not be scaled.
-Parenting between sections must be logical.
-Sections may overlap other sections within reason. No more than 25% can be covered by another section.

Weapons and Modules:
-Limited to 3 per sections
-Weapons and modules must rest, without overlapping, on its parent section. (It is not required that the entirety of the weapon or module be on the section)
-Weapons and modules may touch, and may cover the section, but again, may not overlap.
-All weapons must use their original arc.

and no single deflectored section covering the whole front.
Taking one big piece, putting it in front, buffing it and protecting it with one deflector is cheap. One should pay more for good defense.

Umm huh, didn't read that in the updated rules. And if your unwise enough to only use one deflector per ship, then you are doomed to failure. I wouldn't call using section 26 on the front of your ship shady, I would call it smart. Deflectors have recharge time, and even when a front section is deflectored it can't possibly protect the rest of your ship. I spent more then half my points protecting my ship, even more then half actually. So I wouldn't call spending 60 + points on defense cheap, I would call it thinking ahead. If your having a problem beating ships that are well protected in there frontal regions, do like me, find ways around it. I kill ships whether there front, sides, or rear are protected, no matter how many deflectors or what sections they use and where they use them. If your having problems beating ships with good section placement, then find ways to bypass and beat them. I have done so and quite successfully I may add. Or use more defenses yourself, you can't just rely on non built up sections and all firepower to win battles. You need defense and good section placement. Protecting your ship with a single section on the front is smart, not shady. I mean look at the piu its easy to beat, or Cmd Prompts Missile carrier entry awhile back,or the stalker dwarf version, I mean there all good designs. But there all beatable many ways over. Having a single section protecting the front of your ship is not unbeatable nor shady, just smart building and good section placement. Try a weasel gun, or other weapons to combat frontal section use. Or a good flanking ship works well. Plus this is a fleet tourney all the ships aren't gonna be right in front of ya, so your gonna have to protect more then just your front. On all my designs I have spent more then half my points on defense alone, and the results show that is wise. Stave off your oppoent and eventually they will fall, or out move your oppoent and they will fall sooner then later. And even if ya do have a section 26 on the front of your ship or other section, unless a target is sitting exactly in front of you, they can shoot around your front section easily. Tac's, missles, weasels, rail guns, etc. can get around or screw over good frontal protected sections. And even more I can think of in the ways of strategies. And even front deflectored sections are not unstoppable, they have a cool down and are torn up by even a half way decent ship. I make ships with a frontal section design, and none are perfect to say the least. Maybe 4 models out of 30 or 40 do extremely well against almost all of the competition. No ship is unbeatable , no matter where they put there sections, or how much they boost there hp. Theres always a ship out there, that will beat yours down. (even if they use the same point systems lol) Also I noticed that even when using the design, that you have absolutely horrid stats due to bulking up your defenses and section hp. Plus your firepower isn't as good as it could be, and you don't have the section amount you could have. So there are draw backs to each set up. Section placement should not be restricted, I mean size is already restricted so you can't really protect all that much with frontal sections. Plus you can't change the size of section 26 its against the rules. Frontal protection is limited even using one built up section, there is no guarantee that your foe will just sit there in front of you and attack just your front section. And even if he does, then deflectors are not unlimited. You can use weapons and strategies which bypass just sitting in front of someone and hoping to pound in just there frontal section. Find creative ways to overcome the enemy.

Taking one big piece, putting it in front, buffing it

Actually all my sections are buffed (for the most part), and I use 5 deflectors or 3 on my 60 point or 50 point models. New strategies are working well. But hella points to buffing up, costs in firepower and stats I have found. Lol buff all your sections and your ship seems to live longer I have found. Never really gave it much appreciation, until I actually tried it. But my ships have become turtles unfortunetly lol, and there flanked kinda easily. Thank god for quad blasters ( one of my set ups uses many)

One should pay more for good defense.

I would hope so, if not then there going boom

You spend less, you get less trust me. People who try to use little to get more fail miserably in this game. (especially without aegis use)

Oh before I forget, I would like to see a limit of 3 points spent to every individual section's hp boost, that way you cut down on the people who go alittle above and beyond and start to walk the cheese borderline. (Spend 4 or more points on a single section and you do become cheesey in this format.) A 950 point battlship section (3 points) is still balanced. But beyond that it does start to become unbalanced due to weapons staying at there defaults, deflector use, nano use, etc.

[TrashMan]

You don't get it. I'm saying that being able to protect the whole front of your ships with just 1 deflector and section is CHEAP.

I always use at least 2. Not only does it make more sense but makes ship battles more interesting.

[goduranus]

People, we're getting off topic. Please post some ship that beat the previous one.

[TrashMan]

Knock yourself out: :twisted:

http://www.wyrdysm.com/battleshipsforev ... _SHIPS.rar

Here's my whole tournament fleet - latest.

[antisocialmunky]

http://www.wyrdysm.com/battleshipsforev ... nFixed.shp

This is a cool thread, I've wanted to create a tourney ship for a while now but there haven't been any real open tourneys lately so I hope this thread doesn't die.

Anyway, that's my Aegean. It can beat most of Trashman's fleet one-on-one except for Eternal Phoenix II - unless I change the AI range - and draw the more defensive ships.

I like your ship designs, very refined.

[Zirik]

Post some screenshots so we can see how it does.

[antisocialmunky]

ARG, the board just deleted my reports. I should have pasted them in notepad first... Thanks shift + backspace, I love you too.

Anyway... here they are, play-by-play, the interesting ones...

Default settings due to the fact that long range = endless waltz, ships started on opposite sides of the initial screen.

Aegean vs Deathcloud

After the first few opening barrage, the slow Deathcloud took several volleys of weasel fire to its 'leaf' sections while the Aegean simply stayed on step ahead of the plasma death zone.



I feel it only fair to mention that in only two of the tests I've run have the Aegean decided it was a bad idea to dodge and concluded to charge instead. It resulted in the loss of several of its front rail guns and its rear section. However, most of the time it chose to dodge, thankfully.

The slow Deathcloud could do nothing but sit there and take hit after hit and soon it was in shambles.

And that was how it unfolded in most of the tests. Though granted, it is a slow artillery ship while the Aegean is a annoying flanker designed to be able to take punishment for an indefinite period of time.

Winner: Aegean

The Eternal Phoenix II vs Aegean

The Phoenix immediately spewed out a massive barrage of shotgun gattling blaster to show who was boss: 8)

*my wireless connection is wonky so I'll upload picture later*

After a trading a few volleys with the Aegean the Phoenix found its lateral sections damaged due to its initial shoddy deflector placement and the Aegean's generous complement of weasel guns.

However, the Phoenix was also wearing the Aegean's front left armor plate down with its wide cone of blaster fire. While the weasels were random and unpredictable the gattling blasters were random in a good way. They always created a large cone of fire that the Aegean could just never get out of despite its high flanking speed.

It was like clockwork and remain stalemated for quite some time with each ship scoring some good hits but never doing enough damage to over come each other's nano-matrices and deflectors.

Until the Aegean got in a lucky string of weasel shots and tore off the left section of plating on the Phoenix.

And then the Phoenix returned the favor by finally finishing off that crucial piece of the Aegean's front armor.

And then its secondary layer of armor...

And then the whole other side...

And that was about it. The Phoenix destroying the fragile Aegean's front armor decided the fight. It was a tough fight with two well built ships.

Winner: The Eternal Phoenix II

Aegean vs The Harbringer of Doom

The Aegean and the Harbringer shrugged off each otehr's first few opening volleys:

The Harbringer had enough PD to destroy the majority of the weasels while the Aegean had enough speed and PD to destroy most of the missiles:

However, the Harbringer, being so big couldn't adequately fend off both the railguns and weasels with just its PD. Without self repair, it couldn't repair sectiosn beyond yellow. Though its defenses allowed though very little fire, it only took a few lucky shots and back deflector placement thanks to the piercing railgun fire before it started losing sections.

It was a slow war of attrition but the Aegean slowly ground the Harbringer down to the point where its interceptable weapons couldn't bypass the PD on the Aegean.

Eventually, the Aegean blew off the pylon connecting the shield and body but due to excellent deflector placement, it was a hard nut to crack but it did fall.

Winner: Harbringer

The Eternal Phoenix III vs Aegean

This battle was the same as The Eternal Phoenix II vs Aegean except for the fact that the AI range on Phoenix III seemed to be shorter, forcing it to follow. This made all the difference as you will see later:

The battle started with the Phoenix III in pursuit of Aegean and pretty much continued that way for most of the match.

Unlike both the Harbringer, the Phoenix III is a fast missile ship. This meant, instead of the Aegean, staying at range and defeating missiles, missiles would impact regularly. Unfortunately, most of the missiles were defeated by the PD guns unlike the hail storm of blaster shots from Phoenix's little brother and reduced DPS.

Being fast, while reducing the range between the ships also caused the weasel shots from Aegean to hit farther back. Instead of slamming into the thow big front plates, they would slam into the two lateral pieces.

Since, the front of the Phoenix was getting raked by the railguns, and the rear was taking weasel hits, the deflectors became confused and would often set themselves to the pylons that supported the front plates instead of the vulnerable lateral sections. Other times, they would get confused and set themselves to the rears section while the other deflectors protected on set of pylon and plating leaving the other plate completely down.

Ontop of this the Aegean was handily dodging or absorbing the token amount of damage that reached it. Unlike its fight against Phoenix II, there was not 'shotgun' effect every few seconds to catch a section when the deflectors were down.

After several devastating volleys, the Phoenix III lost one and then both of its lateral sections while displaying some truely confused deflector settings. The weasels then slowly destroyed the side mounted deflectors and the railguns sniped off the Phoenix's weapons and then it was game.

Winner: Aegean

These weren't the only games I ran, I ran alot against all the ships but I didn't feel like recording every single one.