"Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Discussion for the Next Big Thing, which is purely theoretical.
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Arcalane
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"Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by Arcalane »

As some of you may have noticed, there's a new "Outsiders" template for playing alien races in 2.0. This thread is for discussions on the perks and drawbacks (not the technology/etc.) of being an Outsider.

I should make a point of saying now that not everyone is going to get to play an Outsider, nor should everyone want to play an Outsider. Entry requirements for Outsiders are much higher than normal factions, so be prepared to do some writing and figuring out how your empire works. The more you do and the better it is, the more likely your Outsider request will be accepted.

Take in mind perks and drawbacks are likely highly dependent on the fluff for the race, but there is one assumed thing, and that is that, no matter your role (exploration, investigation, conquest), there is some element of the rest of your race that you still have some form of contact with, via special means. You are only a small fraction of your empire's true power, but due to resource constraints, they cannot afford to deploy their forces en masse, and must make do with what they can assemble on your side.

Also, anyone who uses the "running from something" cliche in their empire's backstory may suffer... unforeseen consequences if they're ever caught up with.

What's this mean? Well, it brings us to the two main perks, really;

Supply Convoys
Periodically, Outsiders may recieve supply convoys from their 'home'. The exact nature and contents of these convoys are unknown until they are delivered. Do not expect free ships - contents will likely be raw materials if you are doing poorly, and population as your beachhead is built up.

Requisitions
That said, you can, in times of need, call upon your home to dispatch ships to you. These will not be free, and nor will their arrival be instant or 100% accurate (they might arrive early or late), but you won't have to tie up construction space. Depending on the nature of your request, it may or may not be granted. Don't expect to be granted a Battleship the moment after you've deployed, for example. The deployment schedule will be dictated by your superiors, so be prepared for possible delays.

Either of these perks may or may not require the construction of a special orbital structure in order to facilitate the arrival of the ships, or such a structure may be built in order to increase the accuracy of requisition arrivals and the frequency of convoys.

~~

Now onto some drawbacks!

Translator Troubles
Assuming you choose to negotiate with the human factions, rather than attack their ships on sight, it will take some time for translators to be rigged up so that you can communicate properly. Let's just say things are going to be interesting at first...

Outsiders
No matter how you spin it, you are from outside this layer of the Node Network. You are alien, and you are quite likely to be seen as an invader. That's not to say everyone will be violently xenophobic, but don't expect them to welcome you with open arms.
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Post by Silverware »

Possibly could have a new species, who havent had access to the jump nodes, until and old imperial probe arrives or something.

The keep the translation troubles dependant upon how the species communicates, and have a much lower initial tech level, but may have a healthier fleet to start with, even if its a lower tech. Also they would have a healthier income as their species had been on their home planet for longer than the Humans have been on/in their planet/system.

There could also be a scouting force species, who start later, with higher tech, and very few ships. And could be feed extra ships as they find valuable resources.

Also different metals and other materials could be worth more or less to the outside species.

Maybe languages could be in ways that Humans have no hope of understanding or translating. Like telepathy, that only works for intra-species communication.
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Post by Arcalane »

Everyone's tech in general will be pretty low to begin with, so if anything, Outsiders will generally have a tech advantage in some regards. Not quite back to having to use chemical rockets and looking like spacestations with engines, but early game weapons will focus on kinetic projectiles and low-end missiles probably, because of the Collapse and the pre-Collapse tech being a bit here there and everywhere.

Again this is potential perks and benefits overall, not on a per species/race basis. Specifics will be tackled as submissions are dealt with.

I should also note there will probably only be two or three Outsider slots available, so don't all sign up for one.
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Post by inteuniso »

If there is a lack of outsiders, I won't mind doing one.

I also think there should be another drawback: RAMPANT XENOPHOBIA

If you ever conquer a previously human-held world, there will obviously be rampant dissatisfaction with their new rulers. Inter-species ruling doesn't work too well, when viewed as heartless conquerors.

As such, you will need to research propaganda techniques and ways for assimilation and melting together of cultures to have a happy population.


For an easier way, exterminate the vermin.
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Post by Arcalane »

I believe that's partially listed amongst the Effects already, I'd just forgotten to do a proper writeup for it here.
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Post by LactoseTolerant »

Some sort of "home-field advantage" when going against the Outsiders, or vice-versa? Kinda hard to do in space, but I guess this could go with "hidden space lanes" and "hiding behind asteroids/planets"?

I'm thinking along the lines of the American War for Independence, where colonial troops would appear out of nowhere and ambush the British, because they knew where this forest path led, where that river runs, etc.
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Post by Silverware »

Possibly Node Drives that work on an entirely different frequency and therefore have entirely different routes to the same systems.
This would be a bit of a bitch, but with only two or three outsider slots this would be do-able and mean that when the players think their base is safe enough to have defenses in the next system they could be attacked from an entirely different side bypassing the entire defense force for that faction.
However this would only be truly effective with an idiot in charge of the outsiders enemy. But we have enough of them around on good old Terra.

Or no Node Drives at all, and they work with other types of drive systems, like a slow teleport drive that means they can get anywhere in the universe from anywhere else, but it may take several turns to do so, but it would be uniform over any distance. It would be a very different tactic required for a faction like this as they would have no frontier systems as all would be only one jump away from home base, but would take two or three turns for the reinforcements to arrive, so it could also prove devastating to them.
They would be able to research faster teleports, or be able to build teleport portals, a huge station, with a huge initial investment but lets them travel to any other teleport portal in one turn. Instant reinforcements but a long time to attack. A good defensive player would be required to use this properly though.
As enemies could meet the entire fleet of that faction, and be devastated, and left weak for other players to pick off.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by inteuniso »

The teleport system sounds too easy of a workaround. You merely build up a huge army, stage them far back behind your lines, then teleport them into your enemy's rear lines, crippling their supply and ripping through them like butter.

On the other hand, it would be a lot of fun.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by Silverware »

A SLOW teleport is the key idea, it takes several turns to move the ships over to the enemies sector, so you have to plan ahead, and try to keep his fleet away. It could also light the sector up like the Fourth of July, for players with probes or scouts or ships in that sector.
It would be funny to send 6 individual scouts out to enemy sectors and one major fleet, and have the enemy try to outguess where your fleet will hit, or to try and spread all their forces out to combat all possibilities.

Actually lighting a sector up like that is almost like a positive for the Teleport system if used cunningly.
There could always be limitations on numbers of ships sent off each turn too.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by DSMK2 »

Bit of a necro or a already thought of idea:

Anything that you use can be used against you
By encountering any other factions/races you make your faction more vulnerable to having your technologies be researched and implemented into their ships. Be it a final distress call with information from dying-ship's scanners (if applicable), videos, salvage, or collected armor samples, they can spur think tanks and massive research operations.
Total annihilation of your ship: Most likely only metal samples can be recovered, but why would the enemy care about taking technology from a ship they were able to erase from the universe? Or if it were a tough battle...

Critically damaging your ship: You'd be extremely unlucky, unless you're able to self destruct, the enemy faction can easily overwhelm your surviving crew (depending on what race you are!) and reverse engineer everything (depending!)

Retreating with a damaged ship: Leaving somewhat intact parts of your ship that can be easily recovered by salvage teams and reverse engineered.

Simple communication about your ship: Depends if your ship/fleet has jamming capability, if not, well this can happen: Videos or scanner information can reveal details of your ship, have lots of think tanks figuring out how is that "thing" on your ship possible.
These can spawn a new tech tree for the lucky faction that largely features your technology, which can either be crude, or a extremely refined version of it! If the faction's starting overall technology level (I might be wrong about this existing, but if so, replace with "your faction's unique technology") is too high or alien, the resources and time spent on researching that particular tech might make it too expensive to implement on their fleet, cue the crude implementation. Otherwise if your technology is easy to figure out, cue the other ending, your technology is no longer faction unique!

IF the recipient faction does not have the resources to research, not powerful enough for think tanks, any salvage and info can be used as a valuable bargaining tool - Possible for that faction to temporarily ally with another powerful faction just for doing what they weren't able to do?

Also this can expose your ship's weaknesses, though that really fits more on how you planned out your faction. I don't think bio-organic ships are 100% immune to this, again depends on how faction is planned. This general disadvantage might make obliterating enemy fleets entirely, or diplomacy imperative.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by Kal Adama »

Well, firstly, if any ship is so advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic (read: really F'ing advanced) then the odds of destroying it with mass accelerators and nukes are slim to none. However, that being the case, I think it's a great idea to have salvage if and when you manage it.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by Arcalane »

Kal Adama wrote:Well, firstly, if any ship is so advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic (read: really F'ing advanced) then the odds of destroying it with mass accelerators and nukes are slim to none. However, that being the case, I think it's a great idea to have salvage if and when you manage it.
Outsiders do not have a significant technological advantage at the beginning of the game in terms of power, though the degree of seperation from standard mechanical techniques (as used by the Human factions) will impact the ease (or difficulty) of reverse-engineering salvaged, stolen or traded alien technology. This runs both ways, impacting Outsiders that reverse-engineer Human technology as well as vice versa.
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Re: "Outsiders" Template Perks & Drawbacks

Post by Kal Adama »

Arcalane wrote:
Kal Adama wrote:Well, firstly, if any ship is so advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic (read: really F'ing advanced) then the odds of destroying it with mass accelerators and nukes are slim to none. However, that being the case, I think it's a great idea to have salvage if and when you manage it.
Outsiders do not have a significant technological advantage at the beginning of the game in terms of power, though the degree of seperation from standard mechanical techniques (as used by the Human factions) will impact the ease (or difficulty) of reverse-engineering salvaged, stolen or traded alien technology. This runs both ways, impacting Outsiders that reverse-engineer Human technology as well as vice versa.
Ah. That does make sense. But just what kind of metallurgical or technological perks are we talking about? Now, I know this is all in the planning phase, but have you given even fleeting thoughts as to how exactly Outsider tech will differ?
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