Love to see Fighters included

Vrmithrax · Post by **Vrmithrax** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:03 pm

So, I've been playing around lately and making very small ships. Basically just miniaturizing every part and piece and making little fighter ships with limited weapons, with the intent of creating little battle wings to fight bigger ships (yah, been bored lately). Think heavy fighters and/or bombers, with the Demeters filling the gap as the light fighter.

There are a few problems with this so far: The first is that you can't miniaturize any of the non-weapon components (such as thrusters, for example). I know that's been covered a few times in the suggestions here.

Also, once you miniaturize the components, as you zoom in and try to fine-tune the placement, the step size for moving is huge. I'm guessing it is locked on a specific pixel distance at a specific set zoom. Would love to see the nudge scale as you zoom in or out in the shipmaker...

My other problem is with the AI... I'd love to see a "Fighter" AI mode, where the unit will zip into range and then back out again to a set location. Basically assign it a position, and then when you click to attack a target, it would zoom in to your designated AI distance firing all the way, then zoom back to its original position and start the run all over again. Handy for if you have a friendly cruiser nearby, you can have the fighters zipping back towards it to get a little repair work done on the fly as it resumes the attack.

Anyhow, that's my idea... Not sure if it's been suggested before, you guys are WAY too prolific to be able to catch up with all the posts... heh

Comus · Post by **Comus** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:53 pm

I can't help you with the design issues - the shipbuilder has always had issues, though it gets better and better with each iteration.

With the AI, though, try setting the AI to a negative range. The ship can't actually get to a negative range, so it comes in at full speed, zooms through the ship, then zooms away as it reverses direction. Ends up looking like it's making runs across the enemy.

Vrmithrax · Post by **Vrmithrax** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:46 am

Comus wrote: With the AI, though, try setting the AI to a negative range. The ship can't actually get to a negative range, so it comes in at full speed, zooms through the ship, then zooms away as it reverses direction. Ends up looking like it's making runs across the enemy.

Oooh, I'll have to try that one... Might be as close as I can get until something actually gets put in.

Thanks for the tip!

Post by **Arcalane** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:49 am

Comus wrote:I can't help you with the design issues - the shipbuilder has always had issues, though it gets better and better with each iteration.

With the AI, though, try setting the AI to a negative range. The ship can't actually get to a negative range, so it comes in at full speed, zooms through the ship, then zooms away as it reverses direction. Ends up looking like it's making runs across the enemy.

Another trick that was tried was to basically set the acceleration fairly low and the top speed fairly high. That way, with a short AI range, the fighter won't be able to slow down in order to "orbit" them.

AllStarZ · Post by **AllStarZ** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:17 am

I'd rather see some means of launching them from your ships.

Post by **Kaelis** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:40 am

Its painful for me to say this, but...

Didnt we already establish that BSF is 'feature complete' and theres no hope for anything new?

(

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Himura.Kenshin · Post by **Himura.Kenshin** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:17 am

I used the search button!

http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=fighter
http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=fighter
http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=fighter
http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=fighter

th15 wrote:It's more than just AI or gameplay. Fighters mess up a whole range of things. Collision detection doesn't work reliably, targeting algorithms are expensive to run, and so on.

th15 wrote:Scale is the root of the problem concerning fighters. To have fighters to scale with the ships, they'd be on the order of 1 or 2 pixels long. That's the only way that they'd be small enough not to get hit by random shots (but they probably will still get hit a fair bit, considering that a blaster shot is something like 12x40 pixels). The thing is, at that size, because of the way the collision engine works, shots could pass straight through the fighters and never register.

As for spawning ships from a module, the difficulty here is referring to the type of ship to create. It'd be simple enough for me to create a module that created any ship already included in the game itself, but I can't structure it such that it can create a custom ship. Sooooo the issue is rather moot since I'm pretty sure you don't want to be spawning Hestias.

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:43 am

Fighter (and even simple squadron) AI is actually fairly simple. For my Algorithm testing, I used this system:

1) find MAXSPEED
2) find TARGX and TARGY
3) motion_add() a certain amount towards TARGX and TARGY
4) set SPEED to MAXSPEED

This causes the fighters to maintain a constant speed. Additionally, they will auto-track their target after a flyby and turn like a real fighter would to go around again. After flying over the target, the fighter will continue a short distance and slowing accelerate into a turn in the most efficient direction until another pass can be made. When a squadron of ships does this coming straiht at the target, they will break off of their "formation" into a cool Blue Angels-style go around. It's hard to explain fully, but it looks extremely cool for multiple fighters with low overhead.

Also, if you wnat the fighters to stay wingtip-to-wingtip, add this code after line 3:

1) find nearest neightbor X and Y
2) motion_add() away from NNX and NNY a smaller amount, 20-30% of step 3 before

In the problem of scale, aren't Demeters already massive on the battleship scale? Like the length of a yacht? Can't you just add a simple fighter sprite about the same radius?

antisocialmunky · Post by **antisocialmunky** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:55 am

ChaosTheory wrote: 1) find nearest neightbor

Owww.

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:04 pm

antisocialmunky wrote:
ChaosTheory wrote: 1) find nearest neightbor
Owww.

I hope you're not rying to crack a joke, because I don't get it.

I never said this was a major part of the code . . . just something to add. I suspect it wouldn't really be an improvement anyway. The rest of the code, however, is CPU-friendly.

Himura.Kenshin · Post by **Himura.Kenshin** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:34 pm

ChaosTheory wrote:
antisocialmunky wrote:
ChaosTheory wrote: 1) find nearest neightbor
Owww.
I hope you're not rying to crack a joke, because I don't get it.

I never said this was a major part of the code . . . just something to add. I suspect it wouldn't really be an improvement anyway. The rest of the code, however, is CPU-friendly.

Normandy · Post by **Normandy** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:42 pm

Himura.Kenshin wrote:
ChaosTheory wrote:
antisocialmunky wrote: Owww.
I hope you're not rying to crack a joke, because I don't get it.

I never said this was a major part of the code . . . just something to add. I suspect it wouldn't really be an improvement anyway. The rest of the code, however, is CPU-friendly.

And so our heroes began once again in search of the legendary phpBBtec temples.

Wha?

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:43 pm

Normandy wrote:
Himura.Kenshin wrote:
ChaosTheory wrote: I hope you're not rying to crack a joke, because I don't get it.

I never said this was a major part of the code . . . just something to add. I suspect it wouldn't really be an improvement anyway. The rest of the code, however, is CPU-friendly.
And so our heroes began once again in search of the legendary phpBBtec temples.

Wha?

Quick! Over there! A small ruin that may lead us to the tower of Babel!

Spoot Knight · Post by **Spoot Knight** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:46 pm

I don't see how Demeters should even be considered fighters since they're kind of...you know...attack drones...

Lizzie · Post by **Lizzie** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:39 pm

Spoot Knight wrote:I don't see how Demeters should even be considered fighters since they're kind of...you know...attack drones...

All things considering. If I was the Admiral of a fleet with access to attack drones. I'd replace my fighters with em and start training the pilots to do more things on ships.