Oenone vs Sinope

TormakSaber · Post by **TormakSaber** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:21 am

Um... right now the Oenone is better at the Sinope at everything, except for speed and turning. Even turning is rather negligent because the arcs of the Oenone allow it to cover itself all around better, whereas the Sinope is vulnerable from the sides and rear.

The Beamer fires for 35 frames and does 2 damage a frame, for 70 damage every 8.33 seconds. The Oenone has 5 of these. Along with a Lancet, which is very very useful.

The Shock Beamer fires for 20 frames for 2 damage, for 40 damage. Or if overcharged, it does 20 frames for 4 damage (I know it says 150% which should be 5 damage... 2 x 2.5 = 5... but it's not, it's 4) for 80 damage, every 5.33 seconds. The Sinope has 4 of these. Along with a Flak Cannon and a Dieterling, both useful, though arguable vs the Lancet, granted the Sinope's aren't sniped off so easily like the frontmounted Lancet is.

So in a "Burst" shot, assuming best damage, the Oenone will do 5 x 70 damage = 350 damage in a burst. That's a lot. Oenones rock. And they will do that damage every 8.33 seconds assuming they can keep the target in their sights.

A Sinope in a Burst, assuming fully overcharged shots, will do 4 x 80 = 320 - *screeches to a halt*

Wait, what? The Sinope is supposed to do MORE damage on the first strike! It's doing 30 damage less on the BEST shot, and will only do half of that, 160 damage, on every shot afterwards, and firing a little less than half as fast (8.33 vs 5.33)! On top of that, the Oenone's Lancet is ruining the ship's weapons... or what's left of them after that nasty 350 damage blast. And to compound it even more, if you do want the Sinope to be as close to the top as possible, you have to micro the Sinope to be able to recharge before charging in. And even then you only get 320 damage... still 30 less than your Oenone, that you can send in at any time, and as long as it can shoot, it will do 350 damage.

Mind that all of that isn't even counting the fact that the Oenone can do all that damage from further away, and therefore be safer from enemy fire than the Sinope.

End of the day, outside the pretty Flak and Dieterling, the Sinope is outclassed in every sense of the word, except in maybe the fact that it's got a narrow profile compared to the Oenone's spreadwing shape. But that's nothing a tank can't fix, like an Enyo or a Peitho.

My suggestions to fix this: Correct the Shock Beamer's multiplier (so it does 20 frames x (2 + 150% (3) = 5) damage for 100 damage on an overcharge, and a 100 shot burst being 400 damage for all 4. Better than the Oenone on the first shot, worse than it afterwards. Problem solved. And to make it more attractive, it doesn't overly mess with the Cronus, which is already like the best ship in the game.

Or... even increase it slightly, to 200% damage. This will give the Shock Beamer 20 frames x (2 base + 200% (4) = 6) damage, making a Burst do 120 damage. 4 of those is 480. That's miles better than the 350 the Oenone is doing, and the after that, the Shock Beamer drops to a piddly 40 damage a hit. It cements the Sinope as hit and run without removing the usefulness of the Oenone as your standard all aroud laser blaster with LAncet disabling.

Any thoughts or suggestions? All tests were run with a player faction ship with 1 weapon, unmodded, of the correct type, vs an enemy faction pirate core with 100 HP damage, and repeated at least 5 times. I like to think that gives pretty concrete results.

Water_and_Wind · Post by **Water_and_Wind** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:35 am

I would also suggest making shock beamers turn faster, since they are pretty much close range weapons. The main advantage of shock beamers is that they deal their damage extremely quickly, perhaps dealing more damage than beams against targets that raise their shields. Although I think shock beamers are kind of redundant; with the regular beamers' exorbitant reload time and high damage, they are just as good, if not better than shock beamers for hit and run purposes or when coupled with a dieterling.

TormakSaber · Post by **TormakSaber** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:50 am

I agree. Currently Shock Beamers don't really have a "feel" that distinguishes them from the other all unique weapons of the game. Even the basic weapons, like Pulse Guns, or Blasters, have very unique, defined roles, and even the Gatling versions (Gatling Pulse, Gat. Blaster, Tachyon Repeater) "feel" very different from their standard ones. Shock Beamers try to be a cool weapon, but their much lower range coupled with their (compared to Beamers) lackluster performance, means choosing the Sinope is largely a matter of appearances. I love the Sinope's looks and much prefer it to the Oenone Delta, so I'd love to see it come into its own.

Latooni · Post by **Latooni** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:44 pm

er, it's 2x1.5 which is 3.5, so he's actually rounding up...

Did you maybe fail math or something?

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:58 pm

Müg wrote:er, it's 2x1.5 which is 3.5, so he's actually rounding up...

Did you maybe fail math or something?

Uh, no he didn't.

2 * 1.5 = 3.

Did you ask your calculator before posting, perhaps?

2 + 1.5 = 3.5. But that would be a + sign, not a *.

Latooni · Post by **Latooni** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:06 pm

Shit. Yes, 2*1.5 is in fact, 3. But anyway, the point is to my knowledge it's not PLUS an extra 150%...

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:10 pm

Müg wrote:Shit. Yes, 2*1.5 is in fact, 3. But anyway, the point is to my knowledge it's not PLUS an extra 150%...

I always thought it was 250% of the original damage. That would be (1 + 1.5) * 2, or 2 + 3 = 5. I think. Somebody check me on that.

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:24 pm

Shock beamers have always, been, inferior to beamers.

Post by **Arcalane** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:42 pm

Anarki wrote:Shock beamers have always, been, inferior to beamers.

Did you, have, a sudden, onset of, Shatneritis, there?

Shocks are supposed to be equivalent DPS at base level (I think) but I agree that they could probably do with a bit more punch if the Sinope is meant to have the first strike capability.

Anarki · Post by **Anarki** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:09 pm

Shock, beamers, are, like, crap, for, inflicting, any, kind, of, substantial, damage.

Water_and_Wind · Post by **Water_and_Wind** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:26 am

Which is why this topic exists.

Although Sinopes aren't bad in raid.

AllStarZ · Post by **AllStarZ** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:08 am

Sinope have a tactical utility outside of their physical weakness. The Dieterling makes up for alot.

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:39 am

AllStarZ wrote:Sinope have a tactical utility outside of their physical weakness. The Dieterling makes up for alot.

Lancets cancel it out, though.

Squishy · Post by **Squishy** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:46 am

I've had wonderful results with having some Sinopes turn 180, then teleport behind a target.

Then again, all the micro is rather detrimental.

Arona Daal · Post by **Arona Daal** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:49 am

Simply increase the damage and decrease the beam duration of shock beamers. It seems that the point of a shock beamer is to get all your damage in before an enemy raises their deflectors. Maybe with enough Sinopes you could even bust through aegis shields when they focus their first strike. The idea would be to have the shock beamer do a little more damage than the full duration of a normal beamer, in a fraction of the time. Then they could use their deterlings to run off while the beamers recharged, while a Cronus or Hecate took care of the rest of the poor ship that got it's shields smashed.

Edit: The reason that a Sinope would do more damage against a deflected target than a Oenone, is that the normal beamers would only get a little damage done before the deflectors started up, while the Sinope could unleash it's entire payload.