BSF 2 suggestion topic.

the mulletron · Post by **the mulletron** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:32 am

Kaelis wrote:Obviously you don't have any idea how resource-intensive vector graphics are.

Actually, I know more than you may think (if I didn't knew what I was talking about, I never would have suggested it).

Yes, you can argue that bitmaps are less resource-intensive because raster-based graphics don't require frame by frame calculations, but then that's only true in some circumstances. Bitmaps are faster when you are using static or high detail images, but when it comes to transforming the image in any way, vectors come out on top.

Now, I'm not saying vector graphics are THE answer, but the reason I suggested it, is because there is alot of rotating, scaling, and colourising involved when drawing ship sections, and I feel that BSF2 could benefit from this method of drawing graphics.

At the very least, it's worth looking into.

Kaelis wrote:Ever wondered why most flash games have quality settings, despite being very small and simple?

That's because most flash games use high detail graphics, not necessarily because they use vector graphics.

Post by **Kaelis** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:49 pm

the mulletron wrote:Bitmaps are faster when you are using static or high detail images, but when it comes to transforming the image in any way, vectors come out on top.

Im sorry but that statement is simply wrong. You can easily draw thousands of BSF sections rotating and transforming all the time and it will run at max fps. The fact of the matter is that vectors are calculated using cpu, while sprite transformation in directx or opengl is designed for and handled by gpu and is inherently faster. In general rendering lines (which is the base method for vector graphics) is much slower than rendering sprites.

Oh, and BSF is slow not because it renders many transformed sprites. Its slow because of inherent lack of performance of GameMaker (its directx 8!). I did some tests, and there was no slowdown when rendering multiple 500-section ships on proper directx9/opengl2 based frameworks (HGE, SFML, etc).

If you want an example, take a look at this: http://aralbalkan.com/759 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQA1GUWxIUs
(note that the bitmap part is still in flash, thus calculated on cpu, yet its still much faster than vector equivalent)
Even adobe says bitmaps are faster: http://livedocs.adobe.com/flashlite/2/m ... 00086.html

the mulletron wrote:At the very least, it's worth looking into.

Trust me, if it was, i would have already done that.

the mulletron wrote:
Kaelis wrote:Ever wondered why most flash games have quality settings, despite being very small and simple?
That's because most flash games use high detail graphics, not necessarily because they use vector graphics.

Most flash games use high detail graphics? You must be using a different definition of 'high detail' than i do.

I intentional specified that they are 'small and simple' to indicate that they DO NOT use high detail graphics. Plus, there some sprite-based flash games as well, that compare very favorably to the vector-only ones, while at the same time having better graphics.

So yeah... i still claim you don't have any idea about performance of vectors vs sprites. Otherwise i wouldnt have to make this post.

VictimOfPepperoni · Post by **VictimOfPepperoni** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:29 pm

An option in the Encounter Maker that you can set your own music playlist, that can be played once or looped (That's what the user chooses).

Importing your own song is already possible in the Sandbox, but nothing like a playlist. It would really make custom encounters more fun, and space battles more intensive, bombastic and overall more epic. That relaxing techno music that plays is not exciting enough for battles.

The Sandbox Mode already proved that Steve Jablonsky + Battleships Forever = epic win.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:32 am

Editable Deflector time values. I want quick-reacting deflectors that run out fast and retarget quickly.

Post by **Arcalane** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:46 am

Just set their recharge rate and energy cost fairly high, duh.

Skarmory The PG · Post by **Skarmory The PG** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:38 am

They'll still react sluggishly.

Myself, I'd like modules triggerable on/off, especially Aegis's and Thrusters.

maarten · Post by **maarten** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:20 am

Skarmory The PG wrote:They'll still react sluggishly.

Myself, I'd like modules triggerable on/off, especially Aegis's and Thrusters.

Normal deflectors do almost that.

But I second the demand for on/off Thrusters. That would make for some great transforming ships.(Choosing between heavy-weapons-low-speed and high-speed-less-guns in game would be awesome.)
EDIT: By the way couldn't this be fixest in a simple patch. Correct me if I am wrong but we already got the on/off trigger, why not give them to modules aswell?

Skarmory The PG · Post by **Skarmory The PG** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:27 am

Simple? Not neccessarily. The groundwork's there but that proves nothing.

Post by **Arcalane** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:18 am

maarten wrote:Normal deflectors do almost that.

But I second the demand for on/off Thrusters. That would make for some great transforming ships.(Choosing between heavy-weapons-low-speed and high-speed-less-guns in game would be awesome.)
EDIT: By the way couldn't this be fixest in a simple patch. Correct me if I am wrong but we already got the on/off trigger, why not give them to modules aswell?

You have no fucking idea, maarten, like every brainless idiot who says "you've already got <x> so <y> must be easy!"

maarten · Post by **maarten** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:27 am

Arcalane wrote:
maarten wrote:Normal deflectors do almost that.

But I second the demand for on/off Thrusters. That would make for some great transforming ships.(Choosing between heavy-weapons-low-speed and high-speed-less-guns in game would be awesome.)
EDIT: By the way couldn't this be fixest in a simple patch. Correct me if I am wrong but we already got the on/off trigger, why not give them to modules aswell?
You have no fucking idea, maarten, like every brainless idiot who says "you've already got <x> so <y> must be easy!"

It was a question, I sorry arca. But do you mind explaining why?

erdrik · Post by **erdrik** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:30 am

In coding you must tell the program to do everything, for everything you want to do it.
I dunno how BSF is setup, but I can guess its not as simple as taking the triggers from the weapons and moving them over to the moduals.

There will likely be conflicting/missing variables amung many many other issues.

pick yer poison · Post by **pick yer poison** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:40 am

Depending on how the code is set up, it could be as easy as copying a few lines of code and changing some variable names, or as hard as trying to get a chicken to digest meat with a pig's stomach. During an air raid. In Antarctica. My guess tends towards the latter, since for the first one th15 would probably have had to have designed the code to be easily transferable. And if he had, then he'd probably have been planning to have that feature (or a similiar one), and we'd probably have it by now.

vulstar · Post by **vulstar** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:06 pm

Id would be nice if we could set a clipsize, fire rate, reloadspeed for a shipmaker module also, so we could use it to create custom weapons like a mine launcher when the enemy gets inside range

jwa8402 · Post by **jwa8402** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:49 pm

vulstar wrote:Id would be nice if we could set a clipsize, fire rate, reloadspeed for a shipmaker module also, so we could use it to create custom weapons like a mine launcher when the enemy gets inside range

While I agree the modules could be more versatile, I believe this already is possible to an extent by manipulating the energy cost and recharge rate...

SHAD0Wdump · Post by **SHAD0Wdump** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:42 pm

jwa8402 wrote:
vulstar wrote:Id would be nice if we could set a clipsize, fire rate, reloadspeed for a shipmaker module also, so we could use it to create custom weapons like a mine launcher when the enemy gets inside range
While I agree the modules could be more versatile, I believe this already is possible to an extent by manipulating the energy cost and recharge rate...

Except for anything relating to clipsize,to even closely resemble that you'd have to cluster deployers together.