Equestria's Finest

[Doogie12]

My little ponies in space. Science argument.
This is funny.

[Happycake]

It's good review for next semester.

[MiramAlt]

My reaction to this thread:

Spoiler!

[GATC]

7). Equation for Alcubierre warp drive: Image This describes the geometry of the warp drive, relative to time, which is constant. Most of the other variables in the equation are factors, meaning that they are substitutes for functions. (aka..Lorentz factor)
Here's a link to the original paper: http://members.shaw.ca/mike.anderton/WarpDrive.pdf

Cool!
A generic equation about space travel that it only used to prove that it's somehow possible, but while using exotic particle, and violating the weak, dominant and strong interaction energy state XD

A working light saber is a self contained plasma lance. In other words, a longer and more efficient plasma cutter. Work it out for yourself.

XD
And what about the forcefield around the blade? How do you generate that kind of forcefield? Lightsaber are NOT simply "more efficient plasma cutter."

A equation/theory for a gravitational generator has not been created at this time. I never even mentioned most of the above mechanisms, even on my own ships. Why are you trying to force the burden of proof on me?

The fun fact is that most of the most rewarded Sci-Fi stuff use gravitational generator (Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Farscape...)

You can't change the spin/charge/mass of a gluon

Hey ^^
Doesn't the warp drive guy is not saying that it modify it? (remember, negative charged weak and strong)

he strong force binds protons together very tightly; it only breaks at very, very, high temperatures.

Or inside a anti-strong interaction field targeting specificity the "bound" between atomes

By the way, why do have to add an electron?

I don't add an electron, I take the ones of the two (26 if Iron) who was there before and make sure that it's linked to a single proton (and not having multiple electron around a single proton a other without one -.-)

Any attempts at artificially attaching an electron to an nucleus at a higher temperature will cause it to escape almost immediately.

It's why they use a "cold fusion" system XD

NO. It would take a very, very, very large gravitational field to accelerate massed photons (or any other particle) to a sizable velocity. This is also problematic in execution. You would have to have an ultra-singularity type object moving at an constant acceleration ahead the engine exhaust. Otherwise, the photons would decelerate to their initial velocity after passing the artificial gravity field's center of gravity, possibly even getting stuck in a gravity well,

Single direction field.
No gravitational field centre nor gravity well. So you accelerate the photon without this kind of problem
It's something we do already quite well with magnet already btw... (Halbach array)
And you don't need a "very, very, very large gravitational field". Only a field that generate a pull and a "counter pull" (since that mutual interaction is a extremely difficult law to avoid) a significant importance. If you have 1 ton of solid photon and you accelerate it at 1m/s², it will generate a 1 ton pull on the ship (and because a 9.81m/s² is quite easy to do ^^)

Solid light: group of photon slowed down to 0m/s by making them "collide" with other photon and "glued" together trough a localised micro magic shield. Thus changing his "quantum mass" (the thing affected normally only by gravity) to a "real" mass (one you can "touch"). The amount of energy to generate a solid photon stream with a high "density" is inferior to the "production" of a equivalent atom. (Producing a atom with the same weight it quite painful in term of energy) but since magic shield can only survive near a magic field, it's why the solid photon lose his coherency and get back to his previous state.

Photon pressure is negligible

(yes, I know, this second amount of trust is ridiculous -.-)

Did you read what I write?

The backscatter from the photons re-hitting your ship would still be easily detectable, through thermal radiation and backscattered particles if not visible light. Where was I? Right...Arming the Railguns....

Hey! Let's play a game, it's called find the photon group that belong to a starship in this picture:
http://stillsound.files.wordpress.com/2 ... stars.jpeg
Did you know that there is photons aimlessly wandering in space? O.O
Be a good guy, adopt a photon.
Oh! And, if you can see my photon, you can see my ship ===> pointless to try to be stealthy if you don't use camouflage generator

5 min after a enemies ship leave the system
Ion drive:
A stream of particle in the middle of nowhere, left by your ship is a big more detectable fact that your ship WAS here (why did I have an "echo" with the form of a line? *Collect sample of the ''anomaly''* Oh! Look! A starship was here, and since WE don't use this kind of particle...

Light rider engine:
Stream of particle? Evidences? Where? you have to be at 5 light minute to catch my signature, and don't identifies it as the light of a star far away.

If you have the tech to detect a light rider engine, you have the tech to detect even more easily a Ion drive engine.

Read some 40k

Yeah! An universe full of magic power! (Excuse me, PSY one XD)
And also Magic tech. ^^

GATC, why couldn't you have just gone with some generic spaceship features instead of infringing on the laws of the universe?!?

Because why not? ^^
Beside, Equestria in the MLP show use some magitech, so it's logical that a future version still use them.

So the ponies are pretty much permantly wired into their ships then.

No, they are in command pod. Some kind of big bubble filled with a nutritive fluid (that can be breathed and ingested).
It put the pony inside in some kind of semi-permanent conscious dream where all his "wish" are recuperated on his part the ship though a mental reading system and external data send back.

And it'd probably be kinda bad for morale.

Remember a thing, they are not human, and thus, don't always think the same way as us.
Bean 50%/70% of his/her life serving the Kingdom is never a problem for an Operator
When the ship is not in operation, it stay often near a station linked to "The Network" (The Equestrian equivalent to galactic grade internet) alloying them to access the virtual reality and any other thing liked to it.

(you can't perfectly repair anything),

Except with nanites that can work at the molecular level (BF standard tech (nanomatrix))

There's also the nasty implication in this passage that there is a 35 year procurement cycle, which means that tech is likely going to be horribly out of date most of the time since you're getting major gear changes only once every 35 years. You could wind up doing the equivilent of fighting WW2 as Britan with Mark 1s because you decided to wait for the Centurion to be ready and didn't bother with Matildas and Churchills.

They got minor upgrade through they whole "life"

By minor, I mean upgrade in term of weapons, shield, software, "light" hardware.
The new turret system are most of the time, designed to be retro-compatible and thus, allow the previous class to equip them, or deploy alternative, new kind of weapons.

If the ship is only active to a maximum of 70 year it's because the generator's star began to erode the confinement chamber (and the energy absorbing/star stabilising systems). Create a new generator is less power angry and time consuming that trying to repair it (and mush more less chance that the whole thing go boom).
The ship is thus recycled, and the generator destroyed in outer space before his complete destabilisation (and resulting explosion).

My little ponies in space. Science argument.
This is funny.

Indeed ^^




Off-topic: ^^

On a less sciency nitpicky front, you shipbuilding is improving.

Thx!

[Necrontyr1998]

...relative to time, which is constant.

Also, that is completely wrong:
Time is relative. That's one of the main points of the theory of relativity. For example, the faster you travel, time slows down for you relative to things not moving as fast.

And if someone wishes to argue the point:
An experiment was done using atomic clocks. They were placed on supersonic jets traveling around the world and compared to clocks left on the ground. When the planes landed, the traveling clocks showed less time had passed for it than had passed for the clock on the ground.


This will be my only contribution to this silly science spat (Alliteration yay!).

Offtopic:
My DGW fleet needs testing by the public (That's you!) so I can get closer to balance perfection, Thnx!

[Happycake]

@Necrontyr1998: I should have been more specific. I was referring to the fact that time at a constant rate in the equation. The "interior" and exterior of the "bubble" are fixed, so time dilation isn't in effect. The equation treats time as a constant. In the introduction of the article, the author says that the theory is based on a form of general relativity, which can be described to be the "foliation of spacelike hypersurfaces of constant coordinate time t". Note that the author is using coordinate time, not proper time. This means that the equation represents the "viewpoint" of a distant, non-moving observer. Then again, "coordinate time" can be said to be merely a way of simplifying equations...


@GATC: I'm sleepy, so please ignore anything mildly offense in the following post.

Spoiler!

You're using more and more fallacies in your argument. Read this: http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resourc ... acies.aspx

Until you provide ACTUAL evidence or concede your claims, I'll refer to you as "moron".

The alcubbiere drive does rely on negative energy, which can be "synthesized" in certain conditions. Negative energy has nothing to do with changing the spin/mass/charge of a particle or boson. Ignorance does not allow you to justify claims. I can tell you misunderstood the article due to the fact that you confused the strong and weak nuclear forces with the strong, weak, and dominant energy conditions. The former is rarely (if ever) violated in mainstream physics, while the latter is violated relatively commonly.

An advanced plasma torch uses a magnetic containment field/bottle. The same probably applies for a lightsabers.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

I don't really consider 40k sci-fi

Cold fusion=DNE

Gravity is a omnidirectional vector field, idiot. Mass bends space-time like sheet; you can't make it bend in one direction and remain falt in another. You have to have a moving gravitational field to permanently accelerate an object linearly. Otherwise, your massed photons collect in the gravity well or go into orbit.

Ton is a weight measurement, not a mass unit. It is absolutely meaningless in a place with no gravity.

Mass is mass. There is no "quantum mass", moron. I told you that fusion exhaust can be used in a plasma drive. You don't have to generate new atoms. Besides, photons are BOSONS, you idiot. They're not even "synthesized" the same way atoms are. The quantum interactions at the boson-quark level become too turbulent for you to infere at ALL. Magic is NOT going to help you.

I did read what you were writing. I'm telling you that it wouldn't be "ridiculously small", but completely negligible.

In the name of science...what is wrong with you? Of course you can't detect stray photons using your eye! You have detectors and analytic programs to do it for you. You completely ignored my point...clap...clap

Ugh!!! Ion engine exhausts can collimated to two as I quote "SEVERAL MICROMETERS WITH LITTLE TO NO DISTANCE DISPERSION". It means that someone has to be directly behind my ship to pick up ANY signatures. Charged particles also rarely interact, so you won't get any backscatter (The ONLY way to detect a radiation/light stream). Photons on the other hand, interact a lot (shine a laser through a dust cloud) and have relatively large amounts back scatter, semi-regardless of the thickness of the laser/light beam. The back scatter will "dilute", but not nearly enough to be invisible. Our current telescopes can detect light changes somewhere in the 10^2 photons order of magnitude. Read the "photon" article on wikipedia. Light backscatter can be easily detected, even by today's telescopes, while we have to build giant liquid based detectors to detect charged particle interactions. I don't think you understood my point in the first place.
Thus:

a). You can only observe a charge particle beam when if you're directly behind it, due the the tight grouping and minimal particle-particle interactions. In addition, the low interaction rate makes constructing particle-detectors resource consuming.

b). You can observe a light beam from a large angle around the drive, due to the fact that light interacts with intersteller dust/gas/plasma and diffuses relatively quickly. In addition, photon detectors are easy to make.

How many physics classes have you taken, GATC? I've always liked biology more, but I can say that I'm relatively competent in physics too.

[STARSTRUCK]

GATC pls,

give up and use nuclear-electric propulsion like everyone who isn't insane.

I am sure there is a way to justify this with plushie horse magic. For example, your thermonuclear fusion process is initiated and sustained by the concentrated hatred of 150 psionics standing around the reactor and screaming, invoking eldritch flame magic that occasionally spawns a 3rd circle demon inside the tokamak. This isn't a problem, because your magnetic confinement system uses arcanium, which is a kind of demon-repelling room temperature superconductor that is forged by Baal, the Chief Secretary of Hell.

I admit that doesn't sound very equestrian, but the alternative is to keep embarrassing yourself and making Happycake more upset.

(I would totally grab that psionic hell reactor idea.)

[Zalausai]

Maybe I should have the Elements of Discord use pain for power. They'll keep a bay full of prisoners for torture. Their pain would be captured using an electro-chemical conversion device lodged into the spinal cord of the subject. When the subject feels pain, the nerves send a signal which is used rerouted through the ship's subsystems before returning to the subject to complete the circuit. Either that or use some sort of extradimensional device to capture their souls when the finally die. Said "souls" could be consumed to power generators, engines, weapon, and whatever hellish machination aboard the ship is necessary.

Now, you have insane.

Moderately believable so long as the "willing suspension of disbelief" remains intact.

[Happycake]

^Meh. Too awesome to criticize.

The only reason I kept posting was because GATC continually insists that her/his tech-material is science based. If she/he said it was downright fantasy initially, I would have left him/her alone.

[GATC]

Ton is a weight measurement, not a mass unit. It is absolutely meaningless in a place with no gravity.

Wait wait wait... What O.O
Ok...
Kilogramme is the official measurement unite of mass
1 ton is 1000 kilogramme and thus a sub-unit unite of mass
It's the Newton who is a weight measurement (because the weight is a force...) (With 9.81N~1kg at see level)

Cold fusion=DNE

I'm not an expert in abbreviation, and google say it's "Do not exist"
My answer? 2 thing
1)Wrong word, we were arguing about fission, and thus it's a "Cold fission"
2)http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0606/p25s01-stss.html Eheh! My too I can battle with link ^^
And Ohh! O.O
It was on the wikipedia page that you have liked to me XD

The alcubbiere drive does rely on negative energy, which can be "synthesized" in certain conditions. Negative energy has nothing to do with changing the spin/mass/charge of a particle or boson. Ignorance does not allow you to justify claims. I can tell you misunderstood the article due to the fact that you confused the strong and weak nuclear forces with the strong, weak, and dominant energy conditions. The former is rarely (if ever) violated in mainstream physics, while the latter is violated relatively commonly.

It's the problem with non native language XD

An advanced plasma torch

Define "advanced" plz?

I don't really consider 40k sci-fi

What about Babylon 5 and Star trek?

There is no "quantum mass", moron.

The term "quantum mass" is the term used by my metrology teacher in my Engineer school (and who is when not teaching, working for a metrology labs) to define the fact that the photons have an interaction with gravity, and a limited amount of energy on impact

In the name of science...what is wrong with you? Of course you can't detect stray photons using your eye! You have detectors and analytic programs to do it for you. You completely ignored my point...clap...clap

XD
What I was saying, is that if you can detect the presence of my photon signature, you can also see the reflection of the ambient light reflection on my ship hull...
BTW!
I just had a little discussion with an Optical Engineer. Space is NOT full of wandering particle who will reflect my photon to you because, if it was the case, space at night would be white, and it will be near impossible to see distinctive stars lights.
And if your detector would be precise enough to detect a single photon stream in this ocean of light, there is a big chance that you quickly deactivate it because of the number of "light anomaly" it will detect. It's here better to simply have a "good camera" to catch the form of my ship ^^

Ugh!!! Ion engine exhausts can collimated to two as I quote "SEVERAL MICROMETERS WITH LITTLE TO NO DISTANCE DISPERSION". It means that someone has to be directly behind my ship to pick up ANY signatures. Charged particles also rarely interact, so you won't get any backscatter (The ONLY way to detect a radiation/light stream).

Since when did a Ion engine only eject radiation/light? O.O
And since when photon are not the light bearer. O.O
And since when a charged particle don't "answer" a light pulse or magnetic pulse? O.O

particle-particle

The fun fact is that when you argue about my photon engine, you use the particle-photon interaction, but ABSOLUTELY not when it's about your ion engine... Does it defy physical law?

Gravity is a omnidirectional vector field, idiot. Mass bends space-time like sheet; you can't make it bend in one direction and remain falt in another. You have to have a moving gravitational field to permanently accelerate an object linearly. Otherwise, your massed photons collect in the gravity well or go into orbit.

And it is not the case in 99% of the Si-fie tech XD
The funny thing, is that you just have to bend it with an extreme angle a one "side", and a softer one to the "other" to produce a soft pseudo-unidirectional across your ship.

Hard to represent in 2D XD

give up and use nuclear-electric propulsion like everyone who isn't insane.

Where is the fun in it?
It's been a while since I got a real argue with someone about physic and science XD
AND I LOVE IT ^^ (Me insane? Nooooooooooooooo)


(BTW, "my spider senses" tell me that, if I don't post a ship soon, this topic will be displaced XD)

[Zalausai]

Mass is a calculation based on weight and volume. A kilogram is weight while a liter is volume.
Some calculation, too lazy to argue.
Though the kilogram can express mass, it us usually written differently using a cubic number three or something.

A ton is 2000 pounds. Pounds is imperial measurement used in the US. Kilogram is metric, used everywhere else.
Metric ton may be 1000 kilograms, though. I don't do metric.

[Necrontyr1998]

@Necrontyr1998: I should have been more specific...

Oh good, I thought you were denying Einstein for a second there. Carry on.

[Happycake]

Spoiler!

Sorry. I thought that you were referring to short tons. My bad.

This is not really cold fusion. Cold fusion traditionally refers to solution-based setup, which does not work. The article you linked me is still technically a form of "hot" fusion, though it uses somewhat different setup. I suppose the terminology is a bit arbitrary.

Okay. The physics papers are usually pretty dense anyways.

When I mean "advanced" plasma torch, I was referring to a plasma torch that had optimisations in fuel efficiency/magnetic field stability/etc. I'm fairly certain that a lightsaber-like device could be made if people invested in it.

Barely watched those two shows. Not certain.

People usually refer to photons as having "momentum" rather than mass.

Note: Optical engineers are probably not your best source. Try an astronomer. Some areas (especially those 0-3 light-years around stars) have decent amounts of intersteller hydrogen. The light from stars are bounced off these particles fairly often, but they're often reflected as non-visible photons. This is why many gas clouds are [radiation name here] opaque. I'm not saying that it is easy to detect your ship at a give instance, but that you can easily do so after a span of time. For example, I can probably conclude that one of your ships has travelled toward a given direction if I detect 3-4 stray photons in a tight area of space at the [wavelength]-[wavelength] (<-- These would depend on your drive) band for a given distance. Some simple calculations and cross-referencing could probably determine the position of your ship. I'm not searching for a light anomaly, but a series of them.

Ion engines only emit particle radiation (possibly a very small amount of light in atmosphere), due to their nature. Why are you asking me this. They shoot out ions (charged nuclei/particles) at high velocity.

I have no Idea what you're talking about when you say "And since when photon are not the light bearer. O.O
And since when a charged particle don't "answer" a light pulse or magnetic pulse? O.O" Please elaborate with better grammar.

I don't really understand what you're saying here either, so I'll just tell you this. 1). Photons do not interact with each other in any physical way 2). Atoms can absorb and emit photons, as long as total energy is conserved. 3). Nuclei and baryons can interact with each other (fusion & fission). Ion engine don't rely on interactions between particles. In the rare chance that the charged exhaust stream do interact with an interstellar gas ion/atom, it generates a particle spray. Photons on the other hand, interact far more frequently with gas molecules, often being reflected and dispersed.

Yes. The gravity thing works fine, but it does not solve the gravity well issue. You either get a fast-strong acceleration cycle or a slow-weak acceleration cycle. You would have to break conservation of energy to get a gravitational field that gives you free velocity.

Heh...GLaDOS. I'm sure a passive aggressive AI could convince you better than I could.

[calvin1211]

Mass is a calculation based on weight and volume. A kilogram is weight while a liter is volume.
Some calculation, too lazy to argue.
Though the kilogram can express mass, it us usually written differently using a cubic number three or something.

Uh, no. Mass is a property for all (well, most but that's kinda complicated) objects, measured in grams/kilograms/whatevers. Weight is the calculation, namely that of the force gravity exerts on you (Mass x gravitational acceleration constant a.k.a. g) and thus the proper unit for it should be Newtons. People use kilograms for weight because they're lazy and g on Earth's surface is pretty much constant at 9.81ish so it's pretty easy to calculate mass anyway.

[Zalausai]

Ok, I don't know much about physics anyway. I'm not a physics major like Happycake.
However, with a little bit of research, I read that 1000kg = 1 tonne (metric ton).
It would appear that GATC simply misspelled it, indicating the weight measurement instead.