Galactic Conquest Organization Ideas & Discussion

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Siber
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Post by Siber »

@Siber;
Limiting your maximum distance from freindly territory simulates supply lines with less book keeping, and in my experince with Masters of Orion, is a pretty good system. New researchs and stuff can increase your range, of course.
That's how I explained it, isn't it? Maybe I wasn't specific enough.
Of course. I was responding to the other guy who proposed a more Space Empires style resupply setup. While that may work okay in an automated game, it's more book keeping for us.
They SHOULD be important, however, to encourage fighting over the systems and specialization of those systems. They should be things that can swing the outcome of a war, but not make their owner utterly invincible.
Clever map creation can do the same thing, as can the simple requirement of taking and holding a place long enough to build a resupply base before you can strike at your enemy further.
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Post by ChaosTheory »

About custom weapons:

Just use a mod scale like this. Make a table of how much each weapon coss to start, then use a formula:

Cost =
[normal points]
* (Rof/new Rof)
* (new clip/clip)
* (reload/new reload)
* (new damage/damage)
* (new hp/hp)
* (deviation/new deviation)
* (new arc/arc)

or even:

Cost =
[normal points]
* (new DPS/DPS)
* (new hp/hp)
* (deviation/new deviation) << maybe this doesn't matter
* (new arc/arc)

So you can mod to your hearts content, but you'll need to use some math to do it, and it will cost you for your upgrades.
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Post by _Ti__ »

derekiv wrote:
_Ti__ wrote:
derekiv wrote: Well, its better than no custom weapons. maybe increase the number to 5? And the judges could make their price higher anyway.
Still, Nooooooooooooo.
I don't mean like super powerful weapons I mean like slightly modified.
Yeah, I don't want wank weapons too, thats why I wanted then to be limited and less cost-efective than normal weapons, at least in the start of the game. i hope to motivate people to be creative, not alowing then to just make a "more powerfull beam", but some kind of weapon that fill a gap or something.

Of course, you woudnt be able to upgrade them forever, so if you max one of them it will be just equal or slightly better than stock ones.
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Post by Normandy »

I say... Use curves! Diminishing returns!
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Post by Arcalane »

Siber wrote:
They SHOULD be important, however, to encourage fighting over the systems and specialization of those systems. They should be things that can swing the outcome of a war, but not make their owner utterly invincible.
Clever map creation can do the same thing, as can the simple requirement of taking and holding a place long enough to build a resupply base before you can strike at your enemy further.
Perhaps, but it still adds additional incentives and motivation to attack certain systems. :)
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Post by Aralonia »

Siber wrote:Clever map creation can do the same thing
"Clever" means the same thing as "Tell Mathematica to make 60 ordered pairs in the domain 1280 and the range 800", right?
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Post by Arcalane »

The clever really boils down to the warp route placement. ;)
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Post by Siber »

To the last three posts, yeah, no, and yes, respectively. To the weapon pricing thing... well, I'm betting it could be abused, or min/maxed like mad. I'd have to build some ship around it to be sure, but to be really fair it'd probably have to have weightings on each category, maybe make them curves, and probably independent weightings for each gun. More damage on a weasel means something very differnet from more damage on a rail, and longer range helps demeters are much than it helps gatpulses. That said, if you want to spend a week or three working on all the individual weightings, on the risk that Arca may not use the thing anyway... be my guest.
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Post by goduranus »

just don't make things too complicated the first time around. There can always be a third CW if we don't think the second is complex enough. But if the second CW is too complex, we'll never get it done. I don't like modded weapons personally, since enforcing it will be a logistical nightmare.
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Post by Mjolnir »

The only custom weapons I could stand are ones set by the people running this game. Say maybe some form of nuke: ie a plasma charge with huge range reload and damage, or high damage blasters, longer reload, but more damage or something along those lines.

I think that at the beginning of the game, each player should choose maybe 3 areas of weaponry from a pool of many. The pools I thought of were:
Solid state point defense,
light beams,
heavy beams,
slug weapons,
missile weapons,
brawl weapons,
tachyon weapons,
beam pd,
deflectors,
aegis,
demeters and
exotic.
The modules could also fit into this list as well. Then youd have many different nations each with their own chosen tech, maybe you could either steal one tech off one enemy you were fighting at one point, or there is a sector on the map which allows you to choose one more. This gets rid of the need for weapon research and gives a uniqueness to each nation and also stops people using all the most effective things on their ships.
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Post by _Ti__ »

Mjolnir wrote:The only custom weapons I could stand are ones set by the people running this game. Say maybe some form of nuke: ie a plasma charge with huge range reload and damage, or high damage blasters, longer reload, but more damage or something along those lines.

I think that at the beginning of the game, each player should choose maybe 3 areas of weaponry from a pool of many. The pools I thought of were:
Solid state point defense,
light beams,
heavy beams,
slug weapons,
missile weapons,
brawl weapons,
tachyon weapons,
beam pd,
deflectors,
aegis,
demeters and
exotic.
The modules could also fit into this list as well. Then youd have many different nations each with their own chosen tech, maybe you could either steal one tech off one enemy you were fighting at one point, or there is a sector on the map which allows you to choose one more. This gets rid of the need for weapon research and gives a uniqueness to each nation and also stops people using all the most effective things on their ships.
thats more or less what i had in mind. the only difference is that instead of chosing from a list, each player proposes 3 areas of weaponry. maybe it would simplify things, so we woudnt need to create and test a huge list, just the proposed ones and change its price or stats.

As for research, yeah, I think the only thing should be to unlock certain weapons requiring a certain tech or something. Not researchs that change weapons stats.
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Post by Normandy »

You forgot scatter rockets! Scatter rockets are awesome since at the higher deviations and lower turn rates they fill the same purpose as weasels, except while homing onto smaller targets.
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Post by Arcalane »

goduranus wrote:just don't make things too complicated the first time around. There can always be a third CW if we don't think the second is complex enough. But if the second CW is too complex, we'll never get it done. I don't like modded weapons personally, since enforcing it will be a logistical nightmare.
This isn't a 2nd Cold War. It's the 1st Galactic Conquest. :)

Siber has a strong point. We cannot easily design a weapon customization system that's balanced without taking a LOT of things into account and possibly making it more effort than it's worth.

Mjolnir; I had considered a tech 'theft' or salvage mechanic that would allow the victor of a battle to recover enemy tech from each destroyed ship. Each ship destroyed could yield a % of salvageable tech (dependant on how many of that weapon/module the ship had; the more it had, the greater the chance of salvage) which would work like a research topic; but once you reached 100% salvage, then it would be unlocked as a research topic to be properly researched and completed.

So for an example, you'd have a much better chance getting a Beamer by destroying a Cronus than getting a Gat Blaster by destroying a Hestia.

Each salvaged part might yield x% towards the total (dependant on the part - some would be easier to reverse engineer than others) so salvage could be a fairly slow-moving mechanic.

I also think you've listed way too many "pools", to the point of maybe one weapon or module per pool. As it is, we have maybe two dozen weapons and a dozen modules.

I suggest boiling it down to larger pools like;

Beam Weapons
Blaster Weapons
Pulse Weapons
Torpedoes & Missiles
Drone Technology
Exotic Weapons
Active Defenses (PD)
Passive Defenses (Deflecs, Aegis, etc.)
Exotic Defenses (Impeder, etc.)
Deployment Options (allows Deployers w/ respective tech areas)
Experimental Weapons (Frosch, Lancet)

This list is nearly as long, but it combines some of those areas fairly well. If we up the "take" count to 4 just for starting tech, and allow people to capture tech from enemies, or acquire it through certain sectors, or just research more of it, it's far more focused than your list without packing too much into each pool or -under- packing pools to make them useless.

We can still have pre-requisites for pools. For example, if you want to start with point beams, you need Beam Weapons & Active Defenses. If you want a Platform Deployer, you need Blaster Weapons & Deployment Options, and so on and so forth.

--

As it is, repair mechanics will not be in place due to the overhead required for combat. This is final, and anyone arguing can go stuff their face up a drainpipe for all I care, because there's no way in hell we're going to model and keep track of damage a ship has taken. Ships will be automagically repaired assuming they survive combat, but any dead ships stay dead.

The combat system is still a bit shaky. I'm putting forward an AI vs AI system run by the 'staff' to ensure a balanced outcome - in most cases, the player can't really lose to the AI. Whilst AI vs AI isn't as "interesting", it's far more balanced and ensures that 1) nobody fudges the results in their favour, 2) we don't need to run tiebreaker fights and 3) we know the outcome will be fair & balanced, unless the staff member -running- it rigs it, in which case they'll be out of their position faster than you can say "that's not even funny".
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Post by TrashMan »

You could handle salvage in a more simpler way...depending on the number of destroyed enemy ships you fill up your "salvage meter".. once it reaches 100% you get to pick one tech the enemy had on it's ship to research.
the salvage meter drops to 0 after that and you have to fill it up again for the next salvage.

As for the repair mechaninic, given fixed fleet sizes you can just remove the damaged ships from combat for 1 turn (simulating them going to some repair yard). Altouhg methinks it's simpler to just assume they have been repaired on station.
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Post by goduranus »

Are you actually gonna manage all that? or will there be a program to help us do the tech, movement, design etc? I can't keep track of that many things. Heck, I couldn't keep of the relatively simple tournament rules, resulting in my forgetting to add HP to a critical section and my ship going boom in the tournament every time.
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