CF5 Discussion

[Normandy]

Well, over my completely computerless days, I have been doing much work on CF [Conflicting Factions]. However, it was all purely theoretical work that I threw out the next day after finding numerous errors with it that would cause a complete and total collapse of the game. So, I came up with the idea to ask the (somewhat) general public.

What sort of space-based strategic role playing (game) would you like to participate in?

The goal is to create a roleplay centered around politics, with dashes of economics, military, and [Insert Generic RP themes here].

[natan_j]

A fun one.
Okay, seriously, I enjoy the diplomatic parts, with some room left for secrecy and stealth, and not set up so that the only end result is one winner, I prefer the UFP approach of 'conquest' through alliances.

EDIT: And mysterious aliens, mysterious aliens are good.

[Lizzie]

EDIT: And mysterious aliens, mysterious aliens are good.

Thats what fucked up the first Coldwar. It can be really bad to the RP if done wrong.

It needs a good dose of espionage, diplomacy, economic, and citizenship management. But it also needs a great deal of tactical and strategic depth in order to make the combat fun. Also you need to work on a balancing system that will work for everyone to use their custom made BSF fleets but you also need to make it so it's not hyper balanced.

[mtheminja]

Yes, the players should consider each other mysterious aliens...

Most importantly, you need to get players and mods who won't quit after a week. Also, you need a decent active mod/player ratio, and try to give players some of the workload. Also, there needs to be a bit more motivation to RP, although I'm mostly at a loss for that...

I'd go for a hex map (better movement) with axis so squares have coordinates.

For balance, you need to balance what the ships are made of (tourney style) which isn't likely to work for a RP (see below), or balance what they can do, like the Cold War scheme (moderated self pricing and the like epic fail, of course). That system might have worked, but it'd probably better to design ships specific for the RP to balance to, since the Cronus, for instance, has no projectile weaponry and a Flux Projector. For trade, and consequently, diplomacy, to be important, there has to be significant fixed costs to owning a good, and economies of scale once you do (ore processor/claiming planet with resource/whatever costs a lot, but producing even more once the industry's up and running is cheap), and trade ships (no RP is complete without massacring innocent arms traders). That means it's worth letting player B produce and trade you PD while you focus on the blasters, for example. I don't think economies should go much beyond factories or shipyards on planets, taxation and all that draws focus from RP and combat (and tariffs can be handled through diplomacy, anyways). For espionage, I think the farthest that can go is letting ships have detection ranges to force you to send scouts on patrols to see if you're being snuck up on, but even that is a lot of mod work.

One system that might be interesting if tourney rules were used is if each civilization could only use weapons/modules it has researched/built infrastructure for/whatever (which would incur significant effort), and set it up so it's cheaper to trade with others to get different types of weapon than to build all your own. Since a decent fleet needs a good spread of components or else it will be counter-able easily (light projectiles, heavy projectiles, beam, PD, deflector, utilities), this would bump up the stakes in trade a lot.

One thing that might help these run smoother is if the RP used a program to handle most of the detail work. I'm pretty sure that if I were given explicit rules for a RP, I could get a java program that would let everything but the battles and messaging (well, you could even put in a rudimentary messaging system, and it could generate encounters files automatically so they just need to be run) be done through it in a couple of focused days, or a week if I spent some of my time on it. Everyone would get a copy of the program, and the mods would send everyone the current world state file each turn. They would input orders which would generate order files, which the mods update the world state with (actually, easier than it sounds).

/ramblepost

[JaffaJoke91]

Sounds very interesting, and i want in if it ever gets up and running. one thing though... how would you handle research/infrastructure?

[mtheminja]

Uh, you can't buy X till you pay/build Y, and building more Zs gives you more As per turn. Just insert what ever your RP uses...

[Chiiro]

Uh, you can't buy X till you pay/build Y, and building more Zs gives you more As per turn. Just insert what ever your RP uses...

Complication just rose to four dimensions.
This would take time and bore people.

[mtheminja]

That's the trick with all detailed economies in these; getting it so it's very quick and intuitive to use. Have any other ideas?

[Chiiro]

Well to be perfectly honest, the only sollution I could find to it is to program a server-client application taking care of stuff, and then it's just basically a multiplayer strategy game.
The deal is that it's either a Roleplay, or a Strategy game, it's pretty hard to mix the two, I've tried doing it before a couple of times.

[Temujin]

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dczm3drj_0cjt5xd&hl=en

I made this for a Star Wars Senate rpg. One of the base ideas was that the stats were RP guidelines, not set in stone. Its much funner, and easier to RP a space battle, as it easily and fluidly allows for tactics and responses.

This: http://swgb.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 1486,0,365

might help too.

[Normandy]

I do have plans for an extremely simple C++ program, but only to make it easier for players to choose actions and for me to read actions. Something akin to making a block of text which the player copy-pastes onto the forum, which they must keep unedited. Then they make an RP action around it. Having a list of possible actions, though not the perfect method, is far preferable to making things up in your head as you go, as my experience has taught me.

I will not be using BSF for any sort of battle system. Regardless of benefits, it's just too complicated trying to figure out everything about a game made by someone else. I do believe you have not seen previous incarnations of CF (more specifically Conflicting Factions 4), where I had a ship-design method implemented. This may turn off some people, but I'm more for quality of players than quantity of players. If you don't want to play this game because it doesn't use BSF, how can I be sure that you're playing this game for the sake of the game, rather than for the sake of BSF?

As far as grids go, I completely refuse to use a grid of any sort. Grids give not only the player, but me (the mod) far more trouble than is necessary. I'm going for a risk-style board.

And, for administration, don't worry about it is what I say. I have extensive knowledge of mathematics and Microsoft Excel, and enough knowledge of C++, VB6, and Microsoft Access to apply them to lesser extents to solving problems. The only problem I forsee in administration is that this game will only occur for the first half of summer - I'm going away to math camp. The transfer of administration at that point will be nearly impossible due to the very short-hand nature of everything I do and write, so explaining how everything works will be nearly impossible.

[mtheminja]

Actually, a risk board sounds like a much better idea, whatever you end up doing.

[Daxx]

Ugh, Risk. A terrible game. I vastly prefer Diplomacy, as should any thinking person.

[mtheminja]

Seconded, as far as the board games go. It's practically impossible to find players, though...

Anyways, they both use the non grid type map.

[Normandy]

Thing about Diplomacy, however, is that if you go up to someone on the street and ask them, they're more likely to recognize Risk.