Design Theory Questions

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:18 am

So, I'm thinking about a new fleet, since the last one's pretty well done (no point in bigger ships and no urge to make smaller ones just now), which has led me to thinking about asymmetrical designs and, more importantly, size of ships.

What, in everyone's mind, constitutes a 'normal' size for frigates? Is there some dimensional range that makes you think, "Yes, this is a frigate" as opposed to, "That's far too big to be a frigate?" I ask because I'm thinking of working off some existing designs (not on here) and in my attempts to get the general shapes down, I'm debating what size I should make the frigates. Too small, it's difficult to represent the body shapes I want (without shrinking sections to an excessive degree), too large, I'll have to explain why this fleet's 'frigate' is as big as the battleships of my last one.

Further, I'm debating on core placement. Now, it makes sense to one degree or another to have the core placed along the central axis, and where on that axis depends on how you want the ship to move: a ship with all the engines and thrusters at the back will probably swing around the back end, while more distributed designs are likely to operate on a more centralized fulcrum point. And if for some reason you have the thrusters up front, well.

But I also tend to think of the core of the ship as the bridge. So I think to myself, what about assymetrical bridges? A flying bridge, horizontally, rather than vertically. What happens there? One would assume that the computer would ignore the mass of your ship and go for the core. You could buff up the core hp so that it's less vulnerable and more balanced, but that leaves the oddities of turning. You'd be turning around a fulcrum point effectively outside the center of mass, and outside the majority of the ship. This could be rather unusual to watch, to be sure- and may not be physically logical. But it could also lend a signature style to the ships.

So.

Thoughts?

Saint Jamez911 · Post by **Saint Jamez911** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:28 am

i could see a frigate being around 15X15 or 20X20... mabey 20X20 is a little large for a frigate... but 15X15 seems to be a desent size. Core place ment would be probley more up to the top of the ship if you think of it like a brige...

Latooni · Post by **Latooni** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:33 am

Going by BSF standards, I'd think it would be about 5-6 sections?

Auriak · Post by **Auriak** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:42 am

I thought I read somewhere that patrol ship was another name for a BSF frigate... will have to check on that though.

I am very confused about the scale used in the game, I remember Nagaya 1 being described as a "massive ship" or something like that, and on the forums I have seen bigger frigates.

Artman40 · Post by **Artman40** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:49 am

Auriak wrote:I thought I read somewhere that patrol ship was another name for a BSF frigate... will have to check on that though.

I am very confused about the scale used in the game, I remember Nagaya 1 being described as a "massive ship" or something like that, and on the forums I have seen bigger frigates.

Well, stock ship standards are lower.

Saint Jamez911 · Post by **Saint Jamez911** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:45 am

i guess it really depends what your scaling to, right?

TormakSaber · Post by **TormakSaber** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:55 am

If you're scaling to stock ships...

Patrol Craft:
Core HP: 100 - 200
Speed: Up to 6.00
Turning: Up to 3.00
Acceleration: Up to 0.30
Sections: 2 - 4
Modules: Yes, but very sparing. 1, ideally, if used. No Deflectors.
~~~~~
Destroyers:
Core HP: 250 - 400
Speed: Up to 3.00
Turning: Up to 1.50
Acceleration: Up to 0.15
Sections: 6 - 10
Modules: Yes, either one module or up to 2 Deflectors. Aegis counts as modules.
~~~~~~
Battleships:
Core HP: 400 - 600
Speed: Up to 1.50
Turning: Up to .75
Acceleration: Up to 0.10
Sections: 12 - 20
Modules: Yes, up to 2 Modules or up to 4 Deflectors. Aegis counts as modules.

This is a rough sketch of what the stock ships balance out to.

Saint Jamez911 · Post by **Saint Jamez911** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:07 am

That really doesn't go into, size. its just stats for hp and speed and stuff

Zeybrin · Post by **Zeybrin** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:21 am

I think that in a fleet as long as the classes are the correct size in correlation to the other ships in that fleet. . .then you are good to go. . . Because. . . does it really matter?

So long as your not making a huge patrol craft and then putting it next to a tiny battleship that is in the same fleet?

Normandy · Post by **Normandy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:34 am

Well, there are no scaled pieces in stock ships, so the stats do give a general size amount.

TormakSaber · Post by **TormakSaber** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:01 am

Zeybrin wrote:I think that in a fleet as long as the classes are the correct size in correlation to the other ships in that fleet. . .then you are good to go. . . Because. . . does it really matter?

So long as your not making a huge patrol craft and then putting it next to a tiny battleship that is in the same fleet?

Pretty much my thoughts, really.

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:23 am

Yes, but let's compare the stock ships to what most people offer up here in this forum. Generally we've gone for more ornate, complex things, ones that tend to be larger. I'd guestimate my own frigates offered so far probably compare with the Hestia in size, if not larger enemies. The Seneschal's bigger than the Eoh 2. The Voivode dwarfs Nagaya's third ship.

Master Chief · Post by **Master Chief** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:43 pm

This depends. If you wish to call something a frigate, you must first ask yourself, what are you scaling and balancing this against? Your frigate can be many times bigger than the Hestia but you MUST make sure that it is balanced against the rest of your fleet. For example, ensure that a frigate cannot be destroyed by a patrol craft of your fleet.

Zeybrin · Post by **Zeybrin** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:59 pm

Yes another thing to take into consideration is the power of the craft. . .

Keeping a balance between the comparison sizes and the comparison firepower is important.

Just because all of your ships are huge in comparison to the rest of our ships. . .that doesn't mean they should have massive fire power. . .if it is a patrol ship it should have patrol ship firepower.

You could also make the size fair in normal battles with smaller ships by giving the huge ships bad parenting. . . enabling large sections to be destroyed at a time to equal the amount of sections you would have to destroy on normal sized ships (normal in comparison to the ships in the game).

We could call this concept collective sectioning. If your ship has 300 sections but they blow up as if they are 30 sections collectively. . .does it really matter how big a ship is?

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:29 pm

It would, twofold:

First, you have to take into consideration damage. Let's go with your numbers- I have 300 sections but they're divided into 10 groups. It's great an all that if I blow up section 1, sections 2-30 go with it. But that doesn't mean much if I find that only 1/30th of my shots are hitting section 1, while the rest are hitting 2-30. Those extras are all acting like ablative armor. You'd need to scale down the hit points so that the totals for sections 1-30 are the same as your opponent's (30-sectioned ship) section #1.

Second, there's simple size issues. If I have a ship with 30 sections to it, it'll probably be smaller than a ship with 300 sections. This ends up favoring the 30-section ship simply because a smaller profile means a smaller targetable area. Less shots hit, less damage sustained, etc. etc. You'd need to scale things downward significantly, so that each section of the 300 section ship averages about 10% of its original size.