The Ships of Seraphim Industries - Last Updated 12/23/07

Artman40 · Post by **Artman40** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:44 am

Raithah wrote:I consider anything that can be beaten by any number of stock ships to be balanced. Now, things that can't be beaten are those monsters with 8000 hp hulls and beamers that could shred through a couple Leviathans without a second shot - while also being pinpoint accurate and fire every half second.

Despite what some believe to be extremely wank'd out ships, I believe that Seraph's are well matched against anything it's size. If you look at all of the ginormous ships being built, and pit them against each other, you get pretty spectacular matches. But putting one of our little pieces of crap against one of his creations is like attacking a fleet of Cronuses with half a Hestia. It won't work, and everyone ends up thinking someone screwed up.

Alright! Gotta test these things against each other then. Although more fair matches some minor improvements were needed.

Da_Higg · Post by **Da_Higg** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:18 am

"Chestnuts roasting on a flame e-mail..."

TrashMan · Post by **TrashMan** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:55 am

Wilbky wrote: You answered your own question.

??Eh...What does beauty in form have to do with 100000HP ultra-fast, ultra-nimble ships with superaccurate, superdamage, superfast equipped weapons?

Post by **Arcalane** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:56 am

Raithah wrote:I consider anything that can be beaten by any number of stock ships to be balanced.

By that logic, the Leviathan Superfortress is balanced which it's definitely not. Nevermind the fact it can slice entire fleets in half and is a fair sight more nasty than the stock Leviathan.

Raithah · Post by **Raithah** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:10 am

But if it can slice entire fleets in half, it'd be impossible to beat - not to mention it'd probably have enormous amounts of health. 'Any number' for me is an realistic number; after you move into the ~40 Cronus range it gets a bit excessive.

Post by **Arcalane** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:28 am

It is still technically beatable, though. It has lots of health, yes, but it is by no means invincible, although it will take a LOT of firepower to beat, as any formidable alien fortress should.

Post by **Kaelis** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:38 am

TrashMan wrote:
Wilbky wrote: You answered your own question.
??Eh...What does beauty in form have to do with 100000HP ultra-fast, ultra-nimble ships with superaccurate, superdamage, superfast equipped weapons?

The point is, the balance of these ships doesn't matter. Heck, it would be pointless to balance them, since theyre so big and complicated that you can't even use them in a reasonable matter ingame. Im all for balance, but this is not a place for it - these ships were made purely for their looks, for artistic reasons. Think about them as little pieces of graphic art, not serving any ingame purpouse.

That said, the discussion about balance in this particular thread is silly

ChaosTheory · Post by **ChaosTheory** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:47 am

Calm down, people.

Also, does anybody else think the new ships look like a giant Gosling Cannons . . . ?

Wilbky · Post by **Wilbky** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:11 am

TrashMan wrote:]
Wilbky wrote: You answered your own question.
??Eh...What does beauty in form have to do with 100000HP ultra-fast, ultra-nimble ships with superaccurate, superdamage, superfast equipped weapons?

Whats the point in trying to balance these types of things anyway? What, do you want to them to be taken down by a hestia? Also, i haven't see any 1000000000000000 hp 3000000000 max speed with 231541 acceleration 9999999999 shockbeamers titans around that actually looked decent. Titans are meant to fight titans. But more so just for their look.

Post by **Anna** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:24 pm

Kaelis wrote:The point is, the balance of these ships doesn't matter. Heck, it would be pointless to balance them, since theyre so big and complicated that you can't even use them in a reasonable matter ingame. Im all for balance, but this is not a place for it - these ships were made purely for their looks, for artistic reasons. Think about them as little pieces of graphic art, not serving any ingame purpouse.

That said, the discussion about balance in this particular thread is silly

Actually, I do balance my ships. Not against stock, but against each other. I actually put a fair bit of effort into balancing them against each other, and they are quite usable. Using a Viator Tempesta to fly circles around a Triumph, blasting away chunks of its hull, is incredibly satisfying and quite fun (for me anyway), let me tell you.

Danny420Dale · Post by **Danny420Dale** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:33 pm

Wilbky wrote:
Anna wrote:"Wah-wah-wah, your ships are overpowered and their armaments are predictable, and I have some kind of moral highground because my ships are balanced, even though they look like complete crap."?

But they're balanced right! ...Well i don't know.

That...

...is a BLASPHEMOUS AFFRONT TO GOOD SHIP DESIGN!

Just for that, I'm siccing no less than _four_ Hypercubes and a hundred Alligators, Discii, Apispatha Pyriferras, and Hasta Mortalitas Luminara on Artman!

Don't even get me started on just how many Death Blossoms and Enterprise Waveriders I'll be sending either. :twisted:

TrashMan · Post by **TrashMan** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:05 pm

Wilbky wrote: Whats the point in trying to balance these types of things anyway? What, do you want to them to be taken down by a hestia? Also, i haven't see any 1000000000000000 hp 3000000000 max speed with 231541 acceleration 9999999999 shockbeamers titans around that actually looked decent. Titans are meant to fight titans. But more so just for their look.

Who's talking about balance? I'll not even talking about balance with stock ships or any others. I'm talking about logic in design. The ship has to make sense in it's own universe (not necesarrily the BSF universe)

As RL and simple logic tell you, making any machine of war is a blancing act. You want more armor?..K, but that means more mass. If you want to keep the speed you'll need bigger engines...which will require more power...which will have to take from the guns...etc...it's a vicious circle
Ever seen that move about the Bradely ARPC/tank..whatever that thing was?

It's just simple logic that tells you can't have everything on a ship. Super beamz of doom? Cool, I don't mind. But where does it get the power for those beams AND the shields AND the engines? Something has to be sacrificed. That's my only beef with most titans. Nothing else.

That said, I think we hijacked this thread long enough

Sry for that Seraph

Post by **Anna** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:13 pm

All of my ships DO make sense in universe. The larger ones, while fast, are almost ALWAYS slower and more heavily armoured than the smaller ones, and my smaller ships always pack less weaponry than my larger ships. This isn't necessarily true when you apply it to my older ships, but with my more recent, High Guard-style ships, each one has a specific purpose.

Post by **Arcalane** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:21 pm

TrashMan wrote:But where does it get the power for those beams AND the shields AND the engines?

This is why the engine sectors of most of my larger ships constitute about a third of the entire craft. Particularly the Myrmidon, which has no less than four primary reactors and two auxiliaries.

Anna has a point though. Just because they look imbalanced from the outside doesn't mean they're imbalanced on the inside. Examine the universe before you start pointing fingers and calling stuff imbalanced.

Don't get me started on how insanely powerful some of the Culture ships are.

Post by **Kaelis** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:51 pm

Anna wrote:Actually, I do balance my ships. Not against stock, but against each other. I actually put a fair bit of effort into balancing them against each other

Yeah, my bad, now that you mention it, it does look that way.

Anna wrote:...and they are quite usable.

What i meant when saying 'not usable' is that they lower down my fps (and i have a fairly decent PC) to single digits when two of them are on the screen. I won't even try to make them fight eachother, im afraid something other than the ships might blow up